Wiki:Dishwasher

Suggestions welcome...
NT
==Costs== * A £300 machine lasting 10yrs = £30/yr = 57p a week. * [[Electricity]] use is comparable to power use for handwash water [[heating]], so is not an added cost * [[Detergent]] tabs 7.5p a wash * salt £1.30/yr = 2.5p/week
2 machine washes a week = 57+15+2.5 = 84.5p
If we estimate 12 minutes a day handwashing, that's 84 mins a week.
Thus each hour of handwashing avoided costs '''60p'''. Working for 60p an hour seems to be popular.
[[Water]] use is typically less than hand washing dishes.
==Cleaning== Baked on grease can be removed from wire oven shelves by dishwashing, which softens it temporarily, then wiping with a copper scourer. Remove from dishwasher at the end of the wash cycle while its still hot, not after the full cycle is finished.
Baked on grease is mostly not removed from non-stick goods, but regular washing can at least slow down its formation.
Egg and egg mixes can cook and stick on rather than [[clean]] off with some wash programs. Egg needs to be cold washed to avoid it setting, and programs designed for oven dishes [[heat]] up right away.
[[Wood]]en items can be dishwashed, but the wood surface slowly deteriorates over many washes. OK for a one off wash of tools, or for low value disposable goods such as cooking spatulas.
==Other uses== Cleaning many diy items
===Descaling=== Goods can be descaled in a dishwasher by putting citric acid in the detergent dispenser instead of [[detergent]].
===Electrical goods=== Despite the usual advice to never mix [[electricity]] and water, a wide range of electrical goods and parts can be dishwashed. However its essential to choose correctly which can and can't, and also necessary to use a safe drying procedure, which isn't as simple as leave till touch dry.
This should not be attempted by anyone without the necessary [[electrical]] expertise to do it [[safe]]ly.
===Cooking=== The art of dishwasher cooking has a small cult following. Care is necessary to avoid washwater & detergent contamination.
===Not able to=== Dishwashers do '''not''' sterilise items.
One use we can't really recommend is cleaning the toilet seat by putting it in with the dishes. Apparently this was actually done in one US restaurant. Yum.
==Detergent== The author has used various brands of detergent tablets from cheapo to expensive brands, and has never found any difference in the end result.
Separate detergent and rinse aid is cheaper than the more expensive brands of detergent tablets.
==Salt== All in one tablets contain salt, but its not used in the machine to do the same job as the salt in the salt reservoir (ie to refresh the ion exchanger). The salt reservoir still needs to be filled.
Only use dishwasher salt. Other grades are much too impure, and stop the ion exchanger working, causing scaling & water spotting.
==Maintenance== * Unblock spray arm jets & check they rotate ok * [[Acid]] clean the machine * Ensure the machine has salt in the reservoir
==When it doesn't clean== When a dishwasher doesn't clean stuff off, the following can be used: * An overnight soak in water before dishwashing removes a lot of muck * A 2 day soak in bleach removes more resistant muck * Cleaning ceramics, glass & plastics with hydrochloric [[acid]] removes just about everything else, including rust marks * Vinegar soaking removes a fair range of muck films on stainless steel pans * Spots of rust & muck on steel can be removed with a copper scourer or a brass brush in a [[die grinder]].
==Cleaning the dishwasher== Proteins form a gloop that accummulates in some hidden parts of the machine, causing smells, bacterial & [[mould]] growth and sometimes machine failure.
Ordinary washing up liquid removes muck dishwasher [[detergent]] doesn't. A squirt of it in the machine before starting avoids buildup.
Acetic & citric [[acid]]s tackle both protein gloop and [[limescale]]. These need to be used without the usual [[detergent]], which is [[alkali]]ne.
They are far more effective used hot than cold. For it to work hot requires delaying its release into the wash [[water]] until the main wash cycle, as the initial rinse is cold. Ways to do this include: *putting [[acid]] powder in the [[detergent]] drawer *or using a commercial delayed release dishwasher [[clean]]er bottle. These use a wax insert under the cap to open only when hot. But the cost is several times as much.
==See also== [[Dishwasher repair]]
[[Category:Appliances]] [[Category:Cleaning]] [[Category:Kitchens]]
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Blimey - I haven't used salt for years. I haven't noticed any ill effect though. Will I have wrecked the ion exchange thing?
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Salt is not required in soft water areas.

No, it just won't soften the water. It will work again if you start using salt again (but normally delayed by one wash cycle, depending on the brine cycle in your machine).
Some combined dishwasher tabs or rinse-aid may reduce the need for that. You might not wash things that would show (such as glassware in particular.
--
Andrew Gabriel
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Ours is fed from the house water softener so no extra salt used.
regards

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Tim Lamb

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"Tim Lamb" wrote in message writes:

Sheer idle curiosity, what water softener system do you use?
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Nuwave MD600, salt tablets and on metered re-gen. Not cheap but uses much less salt than the timed predecessor.
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On Sat, 8 Sep 2012 09:57:28 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

I live in North Manchester, and water doesn't come any softer than ours.
All the supermarkets around have a good stock of dish-washer salt and anti-limescale products.
It's bollocks to blame it on standardised distribution, they are very good at targeting ethnic food at stores serving the appropriate communities.
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On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 09:17:46 GMT

We live in an area designated as Very Hard Water, which is what the dishwasher gets, and I find that the Fairy Platinum sachets do a fine job alone. I stopped adding salt, and then rinse liquid, when they ran out, and everything is just fine. But don't put glasses in that exhibit signs of clouding, they will just deteriorate rapidly if you do.
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On Saturday, September 8, 2012 9:39:53 AM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:

Feedback taken on board. Version 2...
One question though: do dishwashers survive use of caustic soda? I'm thinking for paint stripping & removing baked on grease.
NT
==Costs== * A £300 machine lasting 10yrs = £30/yr = 57p a week. * [[Electricity]] use is comparable to power use for handwash water [[heating]], so is not an added cost * [[Detergent]] tabs 7.5p a wash * salt £1.30/yr = 2.5p/week
2 machine washes a week = 57+15+2.5 = 84.5p
If we estimate 12 minutes a day handwashing, that's 84 mins a week.
Thus each hour of handwashing avoided costs '''60p'''. Working for 60p an hour seems to be popular.
[[Water]] use is typically less than hand washing dishes.
==Cleaning== Baked on grease can be removed from wire oven shelves by dishwashing, which softens it temporarily, then wiping with a copper scourer. Remove from dishwasher at the end of the wash cycle while its still hot, not after the full cycle is finished.
Baked on grease is mostly not removed from non-stick goods, but regular washing can at least slow down its formation.
Egg and egg mixes can cook and stick on rather than [[clean]] off with some wash programs. Egg needs to be cold washed to avoid it setting, and programs designed for oven dishes [[heat]] up right away.
[[Wood]]en items can be dishwashed, but the wood surface slowly deteriorates over many washes. OK for a one off wash of tools, or for low value disposable goods such as cooking spatulas.
==Other uses== Cleaning many diy items
===Descaling=== Goods can be descaled in a dishwasher by putting citric acid in the detergent dispenser instead of [[detergent]].
===Electrical goods=== Despite the usual advice to never mix [[electricity]] and water, a wide range of electrical goods and parts can be dishwashed. However its essential to choose correctly which can and can't, and also necessary to use a safe drying procedure, which isn't as simple as leave till touch dry.
This should not be attempted by anyone without the necessary [[electrical]] expertise to do it [[safe]]ly.
===Cooking=== The art of dishwasher cooking has a small cult following. Care is necessary to avoid washwater & detergent contamination.
===Not able to=== Dishwashers do '''not''' sterilise items.
One use we can't really recommend is cleaning the toilet seat by putting it in with the dishes. Apparently this was actually done in one US restaurant. Yum.
==Glass etching== A minority of glassware slowly gets etched, going cloudy. There is no remedy other than not dishwashing it any more, to avoid the cloudy area growing.
==Detergent== The author has used various brands of detergent tablets from cheapo to expensive brands, and has never found any difference in the end result.
Separate detergent and rinse aid is cheaper than the more expensive brands of detergent tablets.
==Salt== All in one tablets contain salt, but its not used in the machine to do the same job as the salt in the salt reservoir (ie to refresh the ion exchanger). The salt reservoir still needs to be filled, unless your water is very soft.
Only use dishwasher salt. Other grades are much too impure, and stop the ion exchanger working, causing scaling & water spotting.
==Rinse aid== One uk.d-i-yer says his machine cleans fine with no salt or rinse aid.
==Maintenance== * Unblock spray arm jets & check they rotate ok * [[Acid]] clean the machine * Ensure the machine has salt in the reservoir
==When it doesn't clean== When a dishwasher doesn't clean stuff off, the following can be used: * An overnight soak in water before dishwashing removes a lot of muck * A 2 day soak in bleach removes more resistant muck * Cleaning ceramics, glass & plastics with hydrochloric [[acid]] removes just about everything else, including rust marks * Vinegar soaking removes a fair range of muck films on stainless steel pans * Spots of rust & muck on steel can be removed with a copper scourer or a brass brush in a [[die grinder]].
==Cleaning the dishwasher== Proteins form a gloop that accummulates in some hidden parts of the machine, causing smells, bacterial & [[mould]] growth and sometimes machine failure.
Ordinary washing up liquid removes muck dishwasher [[detergent]] doesn't. A squirt of it in the machine before starting avoids buildup.
Acetic & citric [[acid]]s tackle both protein gloop and [[limescale]]. These need to be used without the usual [[detergent]], which is [[alkali]]ne.
They are far more effective used hot than cold. For it to work hot requires delaying its release into the wash [[water]] until the main wash cycle, as the initial rinse is cold. Ways to do this include: *putting [[acid]] powder in the [[detergent]] drawer *or using a commercial delayed release dishwasher [[clean]]er bottle. These use a wax insert under the cap to open only when hot. But the cost is several times as much.
==See also== [[Dishwasher repair]]
[[Category:Appliances]] [[Category:Cleaning]] [[Category:Kitchens]]
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     snipped-for-privacy@care2.com writes:

Two completely different effects here, one repairable, the other not...
Hard water marks can be left on the surface of the glass. These will wipe off with a mild acid such as vinegar. This will be prevented by using the water softener (i.e. salt in the salt dispenser) and rinse-aid to help the water run off the glass rather than drying on the glass. Some dishwasher tablets also soften the water.
Some glass is liable to clouding by action of the strong alkali detergent on the glass. This is below the surface and not repairable. This is more common with higher lead content glass, but some high lead glassware seems not to be affected. Probably not a good idea to wash expensive lead crystal glass in a dishwasher, although not all gets damaged. (There's also a risk of cracking thick glass by thermal shock.)
--
Andrew Gabriel
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On Saturday, September 8, 2012 12:51:18 PM UTC+1, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

added
NT
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We use separate powder. About half the cost of tabs when I last worked it out. We get 10kb tubs from CPC.

Our Bosch has a cold pre-rinse, also useful for loosening stuff after plate has spent days under sons' beds.

Clean filters!
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On Saturday, September 8, 2012 1:07:39 PM UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:

Have you got some figures per wash for that? When I roughly calculated it I concluded there was no gain getting them separately.

I'm pretty sure all machines have

yup, added
NT
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On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 02:29:37 -0700, meow2222 wrote:

I just worked it out. About 4.6p per wash.
Methodology: put lots of scoops on weighing machine and weigh it. Divide number (grams) into 10000 => number of washes. Divide that into cost of tub. Carriage is free as I use CPC regularly.
May be more expensive depending on the powder bought.
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On Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:57:38 PM UTC+1, Bob Eager wrote:

Cheers. The price sounds about the same as budget brand tablets.
NT
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I just worked mine out; I use Waitrose dishwasher liquid. It's £3.67 for 1l, and I use 10ml per wash on average (sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less), so that's 3.67p per wash.
An added complication is that I never pay £3.67 for a bottle because I only ever buy things like that when they're on offer, and I have 3 bottles in stock currently from past offers.
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They saw you coming ...
You have 3 bottles that are currently useless to you until the current one runs out, and meanwhile your money is earning them interest, when it could have been earning you interest instead! Why do you think all manufacturing today works on minimal stock levels which are maintained by the 'just in time' principle?
On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 18:00:56 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote:

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On Monday, September 10, 2012 1:44:21 AM UTC+1, Java Jive wrote:

I got a year's worth of one item when I found it in a one off clearance sale at 44% the normal price. They can keep my interest, I'm still well ahead on the deal
NT

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snipped-for-privacy@care2.com escribiσ:

+1. I wait for the offers, then stock up.
Poundland does dishwasher tablets very cheap. Same results as the more expensive ones.
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We've found Lidl (W5) ones to be good too, although they no longer do the 'classic' kind (only the all-in-ones, which we don't want or need). However not all dishwasher detergent is created equal; we once made the mistake of buying some basic Waitrose tablets, they definitely cleaned less well (also discontinued now, I think). Classic tablets are becoming increasingly difficult to find, but last time we visited Costco they were still doing Finish Classic.
Richard. http://www.rtrussell.co.uk /
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