I wonder if anyone has any input as to which make of socket I should buy to replace the old ones in my kitchen? The Screwfix catalogue lists several different makes (Clipsal polycarbonate, Select, Crabtree, MK) but it is not clear what the difference is between them. Are there any other makes/sources that people can recommend? (I guess that I need around 10 two-gang switched sockets.)
Also, is it desirable to have double pole switched sockets in the kitchen? They sound safer(?). The CU has an RCD for the kitchen.
The differences between brands are cosmetic and quality.
I went for Crabtree white accessories throughout my house. I am very happy with them. Good looks and well built. MK are usually considered good, although they don't do a twin earth version (which probably won't bother you).
Yes. Always install DP switching. Consider installing a non-RCD circuit for the fridge/freezer only, so nuisance RCD trips don't cause a defrost.
Why? Provided that you check your work for L/N reversal afterwards, the benefits of DP switches are lost on me -- particularly if your house has a PME.
You're going to considerably reduce the choice if you go for DP switching, and I can't see why it's necessary, given that they are a recent innovation. Most people would surely unplug anything in a kitchen before attempting to service or repair it, surely?
Pick the ones you like the look of best. For all practical purposes, there is no difference.
Given that DP switching is a new thing for sockets and that it will considerably reduce your choice, I'd not consider it a priority. But testing the installation for correct polarity would be.
But it is worth going for the "branded" sockets. The cheap unbranded ones such as you would get at B&Q etc are still BS approved but in my experience develop contact problems or switch problems much sooner especially if used with high currents like you get in the kitchen.
Definitely worth going for the 'branded' sockets. As you say the cheap ones will not be as good in internal quality, asthetics and day to day use of, ie plugs are often a little less smooth in the insertion\removal actions. ..
No, off the top of my head I'm not sure what make they are but I know they're not brilliant. I'd stick to the Crabtree. I've always used them and not had any trouble. ..
I used the TLC BG Accessories sockets in my workshop which are a match for the old design of MK Logic. They cost 1.95 + VAT each for 10 off - or somewhat under half the price of MK. And they get far more use with things being plugged and unplugged than any others in the house, but have been fine.
IIRC, the BS checks reliability over a number of inserts and removals as well as current handling capacity at full load. Are you actually implying that any 13 amp socket shouldn't be used for a 13 amp load? FWIW, I reckon that a plug causes more problems than the socket - at the fuse connection.
The worst socket/ plug combination ever for overheating where those old MK surface mounted ones with an MK plug. It put me off MK products then - I went for Crabtree. But when they changed their design in the Classic range I sort of lost allegiance to any. ;-)
Probably, but I had to replace some cheapy B&Q sockets which got hot when used with a kettle. The plug was fine, I suspect the contacts in the socket were not springy enough. I've also seen one where one side of the contact spring snapped off, and another where the one of the switches stopped working.
FWIW I stumbled across the Screwfix bulletin Board when searching in Google. The concensus there confirms the opinion here... Choose between MK or Crabtree based on cosmetic style preference... avoid Select...
ah, yes, the 'trade' have a variety of reasons for selecting products for customers, longevity is not always the top reason!
this is one area that I would go along with trade received wisdom. I've had a number of problems using cheap electrical fittings, for instance trying to remove the punchout on a FSU and breaking the entire faceplate, brass screws that shear with the slightest positive pressure, ill thought out cable connector positioning, etc.
I've never had such problems with MK stuff - they seem to be well designed to aid fitting with a number of neat touches, for instance the small clips moulded into the plastic facing for the storage of the fixing screws - no cost to manufacture that feature, but saves the inevitable misplacing of the screws during work. Plug insertions into sockets is generally a smooth action, not always the case on cheap brands/own brands.
I've not used crabtree but have heard good tales of the quality. I'll go Clipsall for exterior fittings every time after previous positive experiences.
Don't presume others priorities. It is bad manners and usually wrong.
Really? Please point me to the reliability data the MTBs, MTTFs, FMAs, FMECA etc.
Not the accessories a local organisation installs. Fairly typical times to failure are switches; 1 year sockets; 2 years Immersion thermostats; some cases 6 a year.
They replace thousands of each every year.
The problem is with the switch contacts in the cheaper accessories. At best they are tinned and tinned switch contacts get choked up with gumf. MK I understand plate their switch contacts in silver. Arcing doesn't dirty up the switch contacts.
The sad thing is we have to take out existing accessories which have been painted, including MK accessories which have been in for yonks (up to 40 years) and work perfectly only to replace them with the cheapest which we'll have to replace next year. If we replaced them with decent accessories the organisation wouldn't have a fighting chance of staying in the current years budget.
If the householders didn't bad use the accessories the organisation might have a chance of installing replacements where needed that we didn't have to go back to in a few months.
However one problem with MK and possibly other brands is they change the styling every so often. Sockets are more visible now with the new-ish building regulations (sockets at 450mm height when they were often at
150mmm and not so prominent) so a mixing of styles has greater visual impact now.
Another is that the shuttering scheme has changed. It is actually a safety feature that all three pins have to be inserted for the shutters to open. It's a pest because if I only have a voltage indicator on me I either need to go get my plug in tester, faff about trying to get the voltage indicator probes in or take the socket away from the box to check the terminals to see isf a socket is live. If there are children with little prying hands around the premises this is a definite positive safety feature which overtides my lack of forethought to take my plug in tester into the premises to faultfind.
They are a bit. I expect that is the failure figures of only the ones that fail, ie that this person goes to fix, and not the overall failure rate, or anywhere near it.
Re different brands, Crabtree and Ashley have been the very best IME. MK OTOH has been the best at marketing, and I dont consider them to be the great brand that some imagine. There have simply been too many problems with their products, particularly with mains plugs, and they dont really compare to crab apples and ash trees.
If you do buy cheapos try the switches first: on some cheap brands theyre difficult to use.
Absolutely. You don't get called in to replace something without fault.
I always used to like Crabtree, but it seems to have fallen out of favour in the SE - it's not stocked by many. Their old award winning Classic range was IMHO the finest looking accessories ever made. With the added benefit that plastic plate grid switches matched 'normal' ones near exactly - very handy where you just wanted an odd one for a particular problem. And of the many thousands I installed when I did this sort of thing, I never once had a failure. Come to think of it, I've *never* come across a failure that wasn't caused by poor wiring - usually the socket melting through the connections not being tightened properly.
As I said, the only cheapos I've used are the BG range from the likes of TLC as they match the looks of the last generation of MK Logic, and I've found them fine.
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