wheelbarrow

Why does tilting it make it turn a corner?
Bill
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Bill Wright wrote:

Similar to your bicycle or motor bike.
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On 12/09/2018 16:08, FMurtz wrote:

Nope !
Single wheel on (most) wheelbarrows . So no direction indication.
Bikes have two wheels and the turned wheel has an angled 'easy direction' hence the two 'easy directions' are at an angle to each other hence the bike turns.
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On 12/09/18 18:42, soup wrote:

In the case of the wheelbarrow its because the angle of tip is inclined as you hold te handles higher than the wheel tread.
This puts a proportion of the tilt into the wheel as steering angle
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soup wrote:

In fact on a motor bike you do not turn the wheel in the direction you want to go, you do the opposite (which makes it lean)or hold it straight and lean.
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On 13/09/18 07:32, FMurtz wrote:

Ok smart ass, get a steerig column lock on your bike and engage it whilst riding and see how far you get 'holding it straight'
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The Natural Philosopher presented the following explanation :

Whilst you cannot ride with the steering lock on, FMurtz is correct in his assertion that you can turn the steering away from the direction you are trying to go. It is a common technique. What turning away actually does, is tighten your turning circle. Its called counter steering. You push to the right, which allows you to lean even more to the left and produces an even tighter left turn.
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On Thu, 13 Sep 2018 08:44:56 +0100, Harry Bloomfield

Quite but with a wheelbarrow you have the means to balance it via the handles. ;-)
If you aren't moving with a loaded wheelbarrow and lean it it falls over. ;-)
So if you are moving and lean it I wonder if *you* also (subconsciously possibly) steer to 'balance' the load?
How often do we lose balance on a wheelbarrow load when moving compared to when we are stationary? The thought being that you have more control over the load when moving because you can steer the load over the COG than the sheer strength you might need to manage the same via the handles when stopped?
If you are walking along with an empty wheelbarrow and tilt it sideways a bit but don't change the angle between the handles and the wheel, does it still deviate from a straight line?
What about the stunt cars that put two wheels up a ramp and then drive at 45 degrees? What balanced, are the wheels facing straight ahead (even though at 45 degrees to the road, and ignoring any effort to counter slip etc)?
Cheers, T i m
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On 13/09/2018 10:14, T i m wrote:

Speaking of which, why isn't a builder's barrow made with the wheel more under the load, rather than out in front? The barrow would have to be higher, or the load part would have to be shaped round the wheel, but you could carry much more in one go, or the same load would be easier on the back.
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wrote:

It works better that way. Easier to negotiate rough ground etc.

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On 13/09/2018 11:46, Rod Speed wrote:

Possibly. I've never tried a Chinese wheelbarrow.
"The Chinese wheelbarrow – which was driven by human labour, beasts of burden and wind power – was of a different design than its European counterpart. By placing a large wheel in the middle of the vehicle instead of a smaller wheel in front, one could easily carry three to six times as much weight than if using a European wheelbarrow." https://www.rootsimple.com/2012/02/the-chinese-wheelbarrow/

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Not a large wheel but we found a collapsible wheelbarrow abandoned but in almost new condition in a shed on an allotment we took on.
Identical to this one https://goo.gl/images/NHbevU
The wheel is set further back than in a normal barrow which means you have to lift the handles further up than one with a wheel further forward so the rear legs clear the ground. And it is far less stable. I can see why it was abandoned. It has one advantage, I can collapse it and hide it so the Other Half doesn’t use it as a temporary storage device for pot plants, compost bags ,pruning etc like she does with our two conventional ones . Temporary seems to be at any time I have cause to move something that needs a barrow and find them full.
GH
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Yeah, that does work better with the heavier loads, because you arent holding up the load at all, just preventing it from tipping over.
They basically moved on to using bicycles for those heavy loads once it was invented and that works even better, particularly when empty coming home etc.
And used the other approach of a thing over your shoulder with stuff hanging off it for the lighter loads that the west used wheelbarrows for on construction sites and when doing roads and dams etc. https://www.dropbox.com/s/driyh1c4oyndn0y/7098156007_bb26d5bbe1_b.jpg?dl=0
And the Japs didn’t bother with wheelbarrows at all for some reason.

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On Thursday, 13 September 2018 11:33:33 UTC+1, GB wrote:

higher COG = bad instability = harder to work with Smaller wheel would be no good on rough ground.
NT
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It happens that GB formulated :

Not common now, but they do/did a version with two wheels either side of the load, for really heavy loads. To steer that, you had to steer it like a push cart.
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On 13/09/2018 12:19, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

My parents got one of those when I was a kid.
The first limiting factor was traction. On anything other than really flat ground I couldn't move it at all.
The second limiting factor was - once or twice I'd got it moving OK, and hit a big bump. The handle shot up in the air, taking me with it, and it dumped its entire contents on the ground...
Andy
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wrote:
<snip> >> Quite but with a wheelbarrow you have the means to balance it via the

I guess you could still have the hoop at the front to tip things out high enough, even if you had the wheel more under the load?
Maybe it's easier to push a load over lumps and bumps when it's slung between two ends (less chance of it tipping out forwards)?
Cheers, T i m
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Having the wheel further in front especially if it has part of the frame projecting in front of the wheel in a loop gives a point that allows a load to be tipped higher than if the wheel sits further back, useful if you are piling material like sand,soil ,cow dung etc onto a heap.
GH
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Well, it does not so much if it was a very thin wheel, but as to why this is the case... Do you remember those wheelbarrows with a ball for a wheel. They seemed a lot less prone to eratic steering. Its probably due to the unequal forces not being in balance and the friction of the wheel. It donos not happen if you pull it instead as there is less downforce. Brian
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On 12/09/2018 16:34, Brian Gaff wrote:

I think it probably works as follows:
The tread pattern of the wheel is flat where it's in contact with the ground. When you tilt to the right, say, the right hand side of the tread pattern is side wall, whereas the left hand side is the centre of the tread. The right hand side has a smaller radius from the axle, so the circumference is smaller, compared to the centre of the tread. So, that steers the wheel round to the right as you wheel it.
Not sure if that helps!

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