what happens when gas runs out

[Fray Bentos]

how long do you all think we have gas for?

When it finally runs out / becomes too expensive / rare , will we be living in all-electric homes?

[Matt]

In your case probably until the 50p in the meter runs out.

No.

[Fray Bentos]

That wasn't a nice answer.

[manatbandq]

I'm sure Drivel has an answer.

He's the one who keeps suggesting gas fired Micro CHP sets and make our homes even more dependent on the gas supply.

MBQ

[Tony Bryer]

Standard tariff electricity is 3-4 times the price of gas per kWh. But as we build better insulated and better sealed homes that need a lot less energy and as the price of gas c.h. servicing and repairs goes up the TCO of electric heating may well become lower than for gas.

[manatbandq]

The TCO of leccy is a moving target given that so much of it is generated from gas.

MBQ

[Nigel Molesworth]

For as long as we all keep eating baked beans.

[Matt]

Given the huge reliance on of gas fired power generation that will only happen if we go for nuclear generation in a big way and someone makes a big breakthrough on waste disposal techniques.

There is another possibility and that is if someone manages to harness the output of Dr Dribble :)

[The Natural Philosopher]

But it didn't cots you as much as enough gas to boil a kettle..what did you expect?

[Ed Sirett]

My guess is that as gas/oil runs out it's relative price will increase.

This will initially bring on further reserves. AIUI there is a massive amount of oil/gas on the western side of Scotland but it's in much deeper water and will require a higher price (I don't know what level though I was told is was 4 times the real price in 1995).

There will be a shift back to coal, nuclear and renewables.

Given the infrastructure we now have is northern europe for burning methane. I strongly suspect that plants for converting coal to Methane/Ethane will be built (I doubt that town gas will make a come back).

[Weatherlawyer]

It will never run out. The utilities were provided at cost before Magrat Thechav. But now we have got used to being milked, the asset strippers she sold us out to can charge what they like -and do.

It is quite easy for other utilities to make and sell hydrogen from a plentiful and self perpetuating resource. Everything else you have heard is designed to sell you red fish of particularly ripe pungency.

Nuclear power plants can run almost indefinitely at 2% output but these rates are rarely reached 24/7 especially no in summer. Off peak they could easily be set to reduce water to its elementary particulate.

All it needs is infrastructure but the asset strippers are not going to invest in the need. You only need to have a variety of the resellers come and change your meter to realise that cost cutting has rendered the service industry seriously dangerous.

That is the problem. And now watch it worsen.

[Dave Stanton]

Hydrogen ???? to replace natural gas (Methane) you are joking I take it ?

Dave

[Capitol]

Reality mode. The distribution network could not cope even then!

Regards Capitol

[nightjar]

How long is a piece of string? Currently the oil companies are discovering new reserves of fossil fuels at a much faster rate than the rate at which their use increases (except for 2005, which had an unusually rapid, but short lived, increase in the rate of use, so that it just about matched new finds). In any case, for the foreseeable future, the limitation on how much fossil fuel is available is not what actual reserves there are in the Earth, but how much of those it is economic to harvest. As the price rises, so the technology to access more difficult reserves will become profitable to use and the recoverable reserves will increase.

Only if the greenies eventually come to realise that nuclear power is good.

Colin Bignell

[Owain]

Hydrogen fuel cell powered cars are now a reality on Unst in Shetland; there is a massive surplus of wind-generated electricity but no adequate connector to feed it back to the Grid.

Admittedly they do have a lot of wind on Unst, and not much else.

Owain

[Matt]

2% ?????

[Nick]

Chernobyl reached 100%, for a little while :)

[Weatherlawyer]

What's the problem? Cannisters of it stored outside would be safer than the heavier than air flammables. And in the mains at one time they used to use a dilute carbon monoxide hydrogen mix. Very dangerous as CO is poisonous.

The main problem with hydrogen is that it is difficult to liquify. That isn't a problem with mains. It isn't a problem with cannisters either; it just requires a change of viewpoint. Besides it can be used in fuel cells or dissolved in methane.

Or if worse comes to the worst, it can be fused with old sump oil, car tyres and kitchen waste to produce man made natural gasses.

Try applying your grey matter to problems and what initially can appear daunting, ends up paling to insignificance. Let me repeat; there is no problem that, were the utility nationalised, should not disappear overnight.

See also

other viable alternatives are coal. We stopped its production due to its production cost not its scarcity and vegetable oils which are about 15 pence after tax for edible quality oil. What less edible stuff is also available but not considered viable due to having no market at the moment remains to be seen.

We know some algaes will produce toxic but rich fuel quality gasses. The reason to worry has not yet been reached. Nor is it likely to be.

[Doctor Drivel]

Just ignore Lord Hall.

[Doctor Drivel]

Probably, with hot water from district CHP, as in Sweden. But with home with far higher insulation than the current building regs.