what does the team think?

[charles]

At my daughter's church, while carrying out some PAT work (only failed one Henry - damaged flex) I came across an oddity. In the toilets off the church hall there are wall heaters - plugged in, so "portable". I spotted that they used 2A pluga and as I didn't have a suitable test lead with left them for later.

1. The heaters are probably rated at more than 480 watts
2. The sockets are tucked almost out of sight beside a WC

I've now found an adaptor with a 2A outlet.(I knew I had one somewhere)

Should I test the heaters and if safe say nothing more? Should I, if finding the heaters are 500W or more, fail them? Should I condemn the local installation as having sockets to close to water?

Thoughts pleases.

[Brian-Gaff]

I think as you will no doubt be submitting some written evidence of your work that it should indeed say exactly what you think about hose things. Indeed you could actually bind tape on the plugs and remove the fuse from the offending circuit, then its up to the company if they wish to chance it or not, maybe god will protect them? I would also take photographic evidence as well. Brian

[Tim Watts]

IIRC the IET's In-service Inspection and Testing of Electrical Equipment Code of Practice covers hard-wired appliances too - notably bathroom heaters and towel rails as a couple of examples.

So plug or no plug, IMO it should be tested and inspected.

And yes, a 2A plug is a fail.

Yes

No

Yes

Unless there is anything in the room that makes the room a "special location containing a bath or shower", no - I don't think so. Unless it's obviously poor, like 6" over a wash basic where it's likely to get continuously splashed and become a danger.

[Tim Watts]

Strictly 460W as we should assume a nominal supply voltage of 230V now.

[charles]

[Snip]

I suspect, since the sockets are fed by a cable clipped to the skirting board, that they are T'eed off an ring main somewhere around. I haven't investigated that aspect. There might be an FCU involved. I hope there is. I wouldn't want have to take off all the power to the hall.

[spuorgelgoog]

They must be tested. Small croc clips work well on 2A plugs though, you may not need an adaptor.

Older 2A plugs don't have sleeved pins, and older 2A sockets may not be shuttered.

I'd be more concerned about the age of the heaters, and the age and configuration of the wiring, than 2A sockets per se.

Owain

[Roger Hayter]

I don't have a useful opinion on the question, but an allied one is the public toilet hand dryer with a flex to a fused switch unit, which tempts the econonomically-mined to use the switch with wet hands. Though of course they shouldn't. While not strictly forbidden in a toilet it seems a very bad idea. In your case if their is no intention that the heaters ever be unplugged except for maintenance (and the choice of socket may have been to deter general use) I don't see that it is actually unsafe if the current rating is adequate. But I am totally unqualified in the field.

[John Rumm]

You would need to establish what they actually are from the ratings plate.

Are you sure the sockets are 2A and not 5A? They modern versions look quite similar.

Assuming there is no bath or shower in there, there is no specific rule that prevents a socket being there. It just needs to be appropriate for the circumstances. So you would need to assess how likely is it to get wet etc.

[Dave W]

So standard 400W tubular greenhouse heaters?

[charles]

My guess is they are not very old. They are certainly a retro-fit in the building. 2A sockets were probably usewd to stop other prople using then outets for powering other things. They should have been 5A or even hard wired.

[charles]

That is what I intend to do.

I haven't inspected closely, but from standing up they look like 2A. The adaptor I will bring to test the heaters has bothn 2A & 5A outlets, and I will know when I actually unplug.

Small boys with bad aim? (or even grown-ups)

[Max Demian]

Back to 480W after Brexit!

[tabbypurr]

Round pin plugs are still permitted, but they must have half insulated pins & the socket have a shutter. The sockets also need feeding from a suitable fuse, not wired to a 30A ring.

My memory is running out at this point, but I vaguely recall they used to be clustered on a 5A fuse, how many per fuse I don't know.

460W at 230v, so a rating of 480W at 240v is the limit for a heater that doesn't change resistance appreciably at 230 vs 240v. Some countries use our old round pin plugs at rather higher current than was permitted here.

NT

[Cursitor Doom]

Good point! I curse the EU every time I'm repeatedly forced to go over the same area of carpeting with my hoover just to get some minor bit of dust off. Bastards.

[charles]

I don't think my Henry has altered its suction power to comply with the new EU requiremnts. They weren't retrospective,

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yeah. Ive got two Henry's. A recon pre EU one and a fairlyy new one. I couldnt believe how crap it was to go back to the newer one

If Brexit allows full blooded Henrys again, it's worth it.

I was thinking that post brexit Henrys could be full power with an intrernal jumper NOT TO BE REMOVED [ahahaha] for export to the EU. I reckon they would clean up completely in Europe.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Just hang on to it. Newer ones are emsaculated.

[Graham.]

It seems to me that most people I know have gone "cordless" and unilaterally restricted themselves to what? Less than 100W?

[Cursitor Doom]

Well, that's still OK for sucking the odd breadcrumb off a worktop.

[Cursitor Doom]

I've still got everything crossed for a NO DEAL outcome, but yeah, even if Henrys were the only consideration it's still well worth leaving.

Ingenious! I like that idea.