The new Housing Act (shortly to take effect in a few days) meant that I had to have two of my properties which are let as student houses (HMO's) have their fixed wiring tested (so that I can now pay the council a further £ 600 per property to register as a landlord!!......something I have been doing since 1998 (with very satisfied tenants who never leave).............it's all bureaucratic nonsence really!!!)
This thread illustrates the problems that are likely to occur for Landlords and Sellers in the future; when there is clamp down on conformance to the regs and safe electrical installations. I suppose that there must be justification for this new act, there are a lot of shady landlords out there, from what I read. Part P is another case in point, I can't argue with the principle from the horrors that I've seen, the method: - Yes, (Licensed electricians would have been preferable IMO).
I had NICEIC electricians inspect the wiring and issue PIR certificates
This does not guarantee competence.
My perfectly safe and very new wiring (which I did myself 3 years ago) failed on one small point (in both houses). It failed as you ......"need a protective device for each ring main circuit".
These are now known as ring final circuits!, your NICEIC "inspector" should have known this.
What I did is to put 2 small ring mains (two adjacent ground floor rooms) into one 32amp MCB. This meant there was 4 tails in one 32 Amp MCB. Each ring main is small and has 4 sockets and covers a very small area. (It was done as rooms were renovated one after another and was easier to wire like that. I combined some rooms on the ground floor as the house has about 15 rooms (so I didn't want 15 ring mains with
15MCB's!!!!!!!!).
This is an example of the type of work that would be done by a DIY'r. It is a departure from the regs; but in this case not unsafe for the user.
The NICEIC electricians informed me that if (they) put a joint box behind the consumer unit (there is an access hatch) and make one larger ring main (with 8 sockets) it will then comply!!
There are other ways in skinning the cat, see below. "Rules are made for fools; and the interpretation of wise men".
What nonsence I say!! These wiring regulations would mean an increased the length of the total ring main, increase the impedance and would make it (slightly) less safe (not more!!). I really can't see that it makes any difference! If you use the MCB as a "joint" it is not allowed but "out of sight joint box " behind the consumer unit which doubles the length of the ring main makes it comply!!
Providing that the disconnection time of the 32 Amp MCB; and the other regulations regarding limit on the floor area etc. are met, I don't see a problem.
Secondly they noted this as a "dangerous fail". I can't see how it could be any worse than "not up to current wiring regulations". I can possibly see that it is unsafe in any way as the MCB is 32 Amps which is fine for each individual ring
I wouldn't consider it a dangerous fail, it is not strictly to the regulations; but there should be at least a comment on the circuit identification chart, at the distribution board, this "chart" is required to the regulations. Further, as the duty holder, I would then comment on this as a code 4 on the PIR: - "Does not comply with BS 7671: 2001 as amended. The users of the installation are not in any danger as a result of the discrepancy. Careful consideration should be given to the benefits of improving these aspects of the installation."
Interestingly enough, this seems to be allowed with the lighting circuits!!! It seems that one can shove in as many 1mm tails in those 6 Amp breakers as you like!!
Radial circuits as already mentioned elsewhere.
Any comments from anybody?? I'm jolly interested to see what the group think!! ......and I especially want to hear from NICEIC electricians!!
Why NICEIC electricians as opposed to ECA or NAPIT, or simply competent electricians?; the NICEIC don't write the regulations; they think they do. As an organisation they are not very user friendly; even though they are a charity organisation; I understand that anyone can phone their helpline, although there may be a long wait for an answer, I would bounce this off them. There are two categories of NICEIC electricians here, one is a Domestic Installer, who can't be registered by them to carry out PIR's, the other is the Approved Contractor who is registered. Which category applies here?, if the former; does he have at least C & G 2391 which applies to this category of work? What does this new housing act, stipulate for inspector competence/qualifications, in this regard? Note that PIR's don't fall under Part P of the building regulations, anyone can do them.
Best regards - Lightman (now a qualified PAT tester with 96.666% in that stupid City & Guilds test which is also a bureacratic waste of time but saves on PAT testing fees!!!!)
This is certainly not work for Von Braun, (try City & Guilds 2391, a bit more difficult; but again.......). Doesn't this PAT fee come under maintenance; which is allowed as a tax deduction?
BTW, there is no mention of an RCD; I assume this is installed.
Jaymack