Wall tile adhesive.

Been tiling the bathroom with large (450 x 300mm) porcelain tiles. Much of it was tiled before so removing the old didn't leave a perfect surface. However...
Did the one wall which is old (100 years) plaster on brick. Some of the skim came off which I made good before tiling. Fine. Looks great. Moved on to another which is plasterboard and skimmed and in excellent condition - this one was wallpapered. Did about half and ran out of adhesive. Which was Homebase 'waterproof' adhesive and grout. Bought at the same time as the tiles.
Now my closest shed is Wicks and they are rather cheaper than Homebase so bought some from them. And this morning while finishing off that wall all the tiles fixed with this stuff yesterday fell off. Quite a shock when the first one went. The adhesive remained stuck to the tiles and you could see it had been flattened where it contacted the wall but had come off clean as a whistle from the plaster. The ones stuck with the Homebase stuff are absolutely solid on the same wall.
I'm obviously going to get the Homebase stuff again - but what's wrong with the Wicks product? Stored past its best or just no good? And do I just take it back and complain?
Luckily not one tile was damaged by falling 6 ft or so.
--
*Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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I learned my lesson with Wickes adhesives when laying a 6m x 3.5m slate floor. The adhesive didn't go off. Now I use BAL adhesives and grouts and would simply refuse to use anything else. I'm a particular fan of their flexible wide joint grout. I use it instead of silicone in places.
T
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I use Ardex adhesives for floors, and Evostik water proof for walls. Bal for grout.
They may not be the best, but after trying a few others they were the first ones I came to that actually could be relied upon. Neither are cheap.
I gave up on 'cheap' after many bad experiences.
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

My experience of Wickes ready mixed products is varied. Their plaster and filler seem to be of the lightweight type, which makes them cheap and easy to use, but they're not particularly "sticky" IYSWIM. I wonder if their adhesive is just a variation on their other tub products. A wall tile should become immovable after about 5 minutes, and you know the adhesive has bitten. Once that happens I've never had one subsequently fall off. The Wickes stuff has obviously not been able to cope with the porosity of the wall, which is a pretty poor show for a tile adhesive.
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Stuart Noble wrote:

Yep. Of course it probably says 'seal wall with PVA first', which then costs more than a decent adhesive would've in the first place..and takes twice as long.
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Costs more? PVA is cheap as chips & you dilute it before use anyway. Only take minutes to brush over a wall - OK you have to wait while it dries, but if you PVA first you get around that.
Might cost a few pennies extra.
I use Wickes tile adhesive all the time & allways PVA first - never had a problem.
--
Dave - The Medway Handyman
www.medwayhandyman.co.uk
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Thing is I didn't have a problem with the Homebase stuff. Which was only slightly more expensive than the Wicks one. To me, worth the extra for not having to faff about with PVA.
--
*I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

And it is a lot of faffing about if you dilute it to any kind of uniform consistency. I used to keep 20 litres diluted in a separate container until it started going off and stank the place out.
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OTOH:
<http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/tiling / diy_Tiling_Why_not_to_use_pva.htm>
cheers, Pete.
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Pete C wrote:

Since most adhesives are almost certainly based on pva, I don't buy the idea that it's somehow incompatible. OTOH I've never found it necessary to seal before tiling.
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Well I took the two big tubs back - one obviously unopened - and got my money back with no hassle. While they were up on the returns counter I read the instructions which said 'not for porcelain tiles'. ;-) So sneaked off whistling tunelessly. But the adhesive had stuck ok to the tiles - just not to the plaster.
--
*Just give me chocolate and nobody gets hurt

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

LOL! I guess that the porcelain tiles had sucked all the moisture out of the adhesive before the bond with the wall had set.
But on second thoughts isn't porcelain a ceramic which would not absorb much water?
Either way, thanks for the tip. Been buying a lot of stuff from Wickes recently but will avoid their tile adhesive and stick, oops, to the powdered stuff from my local tile merchant.
But on the other hand, their "Trade" Contract Matt Emulsion is the best paint I have used in a long while :-) I think that I could get away with telling SWMBO that it took two or three coats of Buttermilk onto white when it only took one... but I won't ;-)
Steve
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On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:36:32 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Err, so asking a daft question, what sort of tiles would you stick to a wall using wall tile adhesive if not porcelain?
--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

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On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:38:21 +0000 The Wanderer wrote :

Regular ceramic ones. AIUI the distinction is that these have an impervious glaze on a porous body whilst porcelain is totally impervious. No doubt someone will follow up with a better definition.
--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk


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On 2008-01-30 11:20:41 +0000, "Dave Plowman (News)"

I wouldn't buy any of these shed products - they are too variable and not of good quality.
It would be well worthwhile calling the technical help line of Ardex and giving them details of the substrates and the tiles.
They have a number of fixing systems which will cover virtually every eventuality. Some involve the use of an admix to the adhesive or a binding preparation for the wall, rather than a need to purchase multiple adhesives.
I had similarly sized and heavy tiles to fit to a variety of surfaces including plasterboard, skimmed plasterboard, plaster and plywood. For the plywood, they recommended a two part conditioner product, which when mixed and applied leaves a sticky surface even when cured. It will then work with the adhesive that is used for the other surfaces.
Certainly Ardex adhesives are more expensive than shed products, but in the context of the complete project, the difference is negligible.
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The Homebase stuff seems just fine. I decided to re-do one bit after changing my mind on the tile layout - it's a very odd shaped room - and those tiles which had been up for about three days removed the skim from the plaster - which was about 20 years old. Can't really ask for a stronger adhesive. Took some removing from the tiles too.
--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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