We are extending the floor tiles up the wall. Question - can the same tile cement be used on the wall as was used on the floor or is a different product - i.e. something a bit more "sticky" required for fixing the "floor" tiles up a wall? As they are floor tiles they are a little thicker and heavier than normal wall tiles. Any advice please?
I forgot to add that this is in the bathroom and the walls are normal plasterboard (not green) but treated with several coats of PVA to seal them.
In view of the heavier tiles, I'd use a wall adhesive, with the larger comb spreader to give a bit more depth. The floor adhesives I've used are too dense and heavy for walls, high cement content I think.
I'm currently tiling my bathroom with 60 x 30cm tiles - they're heavy ! I am using "Heavy Duty Non-Slip Tile Adhesive" for this, as recommended by the man in the store, and it is absoluely fine. In fact, so good is it, that you've got about 1 minute maximum to position the tile, and then there ain't no way the bugger's coming off ...
Arfa
Generally, floor tiles use a totally waterproof adhesive which is cement based. Ordinary wall tile adhesive is water resistant - not the same thing.
Right, that sounds like what I need. Thanks.
You should not be using a tub adhesive if they are large format tiles (over 30 x 30 or so). It doesn't set properly. You need to use a cement based adhesive on those whether on floors or walls. There are versions which are high grab for walls.
IIRC plasterboard can only carry 30kg/m2 bare (20kgm2 with a skim- coat), so check you are OK there - some thick porcelains will exceed that (and many stones).
I used to think that Dave, but since casting around for the tiles for my bathroom refurb project, I have now found that many ceramic tiles seem to be specced for use both on floor and walls. But agreed that if the tiles are 'stone', then a cement based adhesive is usually used, and a ceramic tile adhesive will not be suitable.
Arfa
I tiled my entire bathroom walls with 300 x 420mm porcelain tiles suitable for wall or floor use. Using tub adhesive - actually Homebase own brand. Which is stated to be suitable for porcelain tiles - others may not be. And I can assure you it does set. I did try Wicks stuff which was considerably cheaper and the tiles fell off. ;-)
Right - so the box which usually contains 1 sq mtr would weigh 30 kg? Mine was heavy enough to carry but nowhere near that. Although I could well imagine real stone being very heavy.
Oh yes. but actually the wall doesn't carry its weight.
A tiled wall is a wall of tiles. With grout between supporting each one. The plasterboard is merely there to prevent it buckling sideways.
Its a point that most people miss: When you tile a wall, the original wall ceases - or should cease - to have much say in either the structural strength or the waterproofing.
You're assuming the bottom tile is supported by the floor? In my case it's not - there's a hardwood skirting and I didn't grout to that. Just left a gap the same as the spacing between the tiles.
A couple of the external walls had fairly poor plaster - the original lime stuff where the skim came off in places when preparing. I gave it a good soak in PVA, left to dry thoroughly, and just increased the adhesive thickness to compensate and it seems pretty solid now.
You should not be using a tub adhesive if they are large format tiles (over 30 x 30 or so). It doesn't set properly. You need to use a cement based adhesive on those whether on floors or walls. There are versions which are high grab for walls.
It sets ok if you are using tub based cement intended for the job. I expect that's why it's called "Heavy Duty". I am using a heavy duty tub based ceramic tile adhesive to fix 30cm x 60cm ceramic tiles to my bathroom wall, and I can assure you that it is setting totally hard. It does 'exactly as it says on the tin', and exactly what the man in the shop said it would. As he sells many tiles this big, I guess he knows which adhesive to recommend for sticking them ?
Arfa
That's what I found. But as I said cheap Wicks tub adhesive wasn't up to the job - but then it does say 'not suitable for porcelain tiles'. So whether it was that or the weight I dunno. Nor can I see why the size of the tile matters that much to the adhesive setting. It might take longer to go off fully - but most will be going onto a porous surface like plaster. I did tile the shower cubical with different tiles - and tiled over the old ones which were solid. That did take a long time for the adhesive to set fully - but then it was an inch thick in places. ;-)
I do not know of any manufacturer (or pro tiler) who is prepared to endorse the use of dispersion adhesives on large format tiles. Who is the manufacturer?
You trust a tile salesman over a multitude of manufacturers technical depts and pro tilers? Go right ahead.
Have you pulled a tile off. Odds on, you will have a 'picture frame' of set adhesive around the edge which is making you think it is all set.
Err, the adhesive dries via the plaster etc which is porous. Very few indeed would be tiling direct to a concrete wall.
Oh - I did subsequently remove some tiles to insert a mirror. I can assure you the adhesive had thoroughly dried. ;-)
=A0 London SW
I still think I will follow the universal advice of the experts who make the stuff rather than someone who has used it incorrectly a few times and got away with it, thanks. For a few extra quid and a bit of stirring, I see no reason to bodge it and take the risk.
Before tackling our kitchen tiling (30x45 porcelain floor and 30x40 ceramic wall) I lurked on the tiler's forum for a while and picked up some useful pointers. Perhaps the most important was to use the adhesives that they use and recommend which are Bal (from Topps) or Mapei (from BCT). I went with Mapei (a bit less expensive than Bal) and the slower to go off Keraflex Maxi range of cement based stuff. Having used some Unibond ready mixed in the past the Keraflex was much easier to apply - consistently just the right consistency, wall tiles and the part floor tiles used as skirting stayed in place immediately on contact but still allowed a bit of movement to adjust for spacers.
Probably different if you tile for a living. You'll want to be out of there as quickly as possible. Just the same as the 'score and split' against using a wet cutter. The wet cutter gives a far superior edge - but takes longer. But this is a DIY group. And you're just plain wrong about 'tub' adhesive not drying out with large tiles. Other thing is a cement based adhesive is a pain in the arse if you need to remove tiles at a later date.
I'm not pretending to be an expert - I've just tiled a few walls and on my second floor. But, whatever I'm doing, I always read up on, and follow the experts' and pros' best practice - not where the latter are just saving time or cutting corners, but definitely when they are avoiding call-backs and potential issues. One of the joys of DIY is being able to make sure the the job is done right. I'm happy to follow those with much more expertise on stuff like this, especially when the hassle and cost of it going wrong fars outweighs what little saving is on offer by using tub gear. Try ringing a BAL, Ardex, Mapei, etc tech help-line and see what they say re large format porcelain on plasterboard. The non-setting picture frame story is from pro tilers who have experienced it with problem installs (and not overnight, weeks later).
=A0 =A0 London SW
Quite, very much part of my approach. I'm using Keraflex Maxi on a floor at the moment, it's a joy. Brick-bond large format, straight in the deep end, but fortunately with some educated guidance.
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