Vegetable oil fuel.

I was looking at a thread in UK.legal about using veggie oil in diesels and paying tax on the stuff and wondered if the posters on here had any comments on it.
I don't remember any announcement on the news about a new law and the government site: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/excise-duty/brief4307.htm seems to be about production quotas rather than the use of cooking oil by private - light goods vehicle users.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I believe that tax is no longer payable when produced for personnal use,there is a limit but not sure what that may be.There was a news item in the southwest just the other week about buying the kit for 700.00
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
This the article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/6288920.stm
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I sent an enquiry to our dear servants and got this back today:
Thank you for your e-mail of 4 October 2007.
To allow us to answer your enquiry quickly we need either your Value Added Tax (VAT) registration number or your post code. We use this information to register your enquiry and this allows us to return to your details at a later date. We may need to do this if for example you dispute the advice we give you. It is not essential that we have this information but it does help us. If you have a general enquiry you might find it useful to look at our Internet site at www.hmrc.gov.uk. The site has copies of all our public notices, business briefs and VAT information sheets.
However if your enquiry is specific to particular circumstances we need to know:
* your VAT registration number, if you have one; and * your full address and postcode if you do not have a VAT registration number.
If you are acting on behalf of a client, then we need their VAT number if applicable, or the postcode of the person or business that you are representing. We will also need a completed 'Authorising your agent' form 64-8, signed by them, to allow us to send a reply directly to you. If we do not have this authority then we will have to send our reply to your client rather than directly to yourself. If this happens we will let you know.
If you want to send an e-mail to us in the future you should send it to: snipped-for-privacy@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk.
Please do not send your e-mail to a particular member of staff. Our staff may be absent from the office for any number of reasons and we do not want their absence to cause a delay to our reply. We must make sure that we reply promptly to the e-mails we receive and we cannot do this if these e-mails are directed to individuals.
Please also let us have a contact telephone number in case we have any problems replying to your enquiry.
You can also contact our National Advice Service help line on 0845 010 9000 if you have a query concerning other matters. The National Advice Service is open from 08:00hrs to 20:00hrs, Monday to Friday.
Yours sincerely
Not a lot of help. Seems they don't want to let us all in on the secret.
The BBC article looks like its kosher. I was in an Asian grocers today and the cheapest oil they sell is the same price as diesel.
Looks like some lerts are hal Al.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Weatherlawyer ( snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Simple. You buy it ready "produced"? You pay duty on it. You cook it yourself for your own use? Up to 2,500 litres dutyfree.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Several years ago, kits were available to convert petrol engines to run on propane gas, in the red cylinders. Presumably, these users should have paid road fuel tax, but I do not recall it being mentiioned by a couple of gas-car converters I knew at the time. The performance was a bit down, though, bit like some diesels.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

They should, they should also have had a reality check.

The major headache with using a petrol engine from a red propane cylinder is that it's a very expensive way to buy LPG. The last time I bought LPG this way it was over 1.20 per kg, the pump price is 0.36-0.52 per litre, duy paid. With a R.D. of 0.5 that works out as at between 72p to 1.04 per Kg pump price duty paid. So even dodging the duty, using red cylinders for cars is paying over the odds.
Of course there are people who appear to steal the red cylinders from the side of railway lines, looking at the number of very large cylinders dumped at the roadside that bear Network Rail logos.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Detailed information on this discussion group: http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php
In summary, small producers of biofuels for rorad use, producing less than 2500 litres/year, only need to keep production records, they do not need to register with HMRC.
For the individual running their diesel vehicle on new vegetable oil, the act of pouring it into you tank is considered "production".
I wanted to verify this, so called the HMRC help line and had the above position confirmed to me.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Pity that the vegetable oil retailers have realised the price of their product can be indexed top the price of diesel.
Who do I sue if it goes pear shaped for me?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Weatherlawyer wrote:

Asda were selling veg oil at 1.69 for 3 litres a week or so back when I looked. Tesco were charging about the same. That's quite a saving over the cost of diesel.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Tesco and Asda prices have both gone up in the last week or so. Asda now 1.98, Tesco about the same iirc. The Range Rover (300tdi) was very slow to start yesterday and today with about 40% veggie oil - it's always been almost instant on derv, without using heater plugs, and it's smoking much worse than usual.
Then I read the first post in this thread:
http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/viewthread.php?tid (21
which seemed to me to be written by someone who knows his diesel engines. I think I'll stick to straight derv, with perhaps a couple of bottles of oil when I know I'm giving it a long hard run.
--
Kevin Poole
**Use current month and year to reply (e.g. snipped-for-privacy@mainbeam.co.uk)***
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

But Nothing about How to Capitalise English.
What with that and the "dark blue on light blue" text, I'm not sure I can be arsed to wade through it.
--
"Religion poisons everything."
[email me at huge huge (dot) org <dot> uk]
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Nor how to put his foot on the clutch apparently, or slip it into neutral in the extremely unlikely event of an engine running away.
"Danger to life, YOU CAN'T SHUT IT DOWN" (his capitals, not mine)
He's probably related to that geezer driving a Scania artic a few years ago who claimed it was running away with him and he couldn't stop it. Pillock.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 12:36:15 +0100, shazzbat wrote:

A diesel that has decided to burn it's lubricating oil is not easy to shut down. Any of the normal fuel control systems are out of the loop. You either have to starve it of air or try and stall it.
With the first, do you want to be near an engine designed to run at 4,000 rpm max when it's climbing towards 10,000... Whilst trying to stuff something fairly solid and sealing well into the air intake, if you have something suitable and if you can access the intake.
The second you stand a chance but if the brakes, gearbox or more likely the clutch give up...
--
Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

No you don't. An engine that is running on its own oil is toast anyway, so you just put it in neutral or declutch and let it destroy itself. No danger to life.

You'd have to be fairly stupid to attempt that. Just walk away. Problem solved.

Why would the clutch give up? It's not driving anything if you've got your foot on it, or if it's in neutral. And why would the brakes give up bringing a vehicle in neutral to a halt? Or the gearbox?
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 14:24:01 +0100, shazzbat wrote:

True.
That depends on how it fails or are you saying that an engine running on it's own oil will *never* have a failure mode involving bits of high velocity metal?

Look at what I wrote "try and stall it", to avoid the high velocity metal scenario.
--
Cheers snipped-for-privacy@howhill.com
Dave. pam is missing e-mail
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Nice straw-clutching. No I'm not saying it will never, nor am I saying an asteroid will *never* land in my garden.

No you didn't. You wrote - "You either have to starve it of air or try and stall it. "
You don't.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
says...

Not necessarily true. A friend of mine over-filled his Montego (Perkins DI TD unit), and that ran on its lubricating oil, sucked down the valve stems.
He just pulled onto the hard shoulder, and jammed the brakes on, and it stalled.
"Repair" was to crack open the injectors, turn it over until the oil was squirted out, and then re-tighten the injectors. He forgot this last bit to start off!
Pete.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

So no danger to life then.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Happened to a friend of mine's Galaxy recently. Of course he stalled it as you always have the hope that it will be repairable. It was, however and to quote a previous poster, toast anyway :o(
--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.