Oh, this also lets the school function as an emergency shelter in case
the power grid fails? How much is THAT worth?
And it provides enough electricuty for 188 homes? That sure screws up
somebody's earlier post about how a system like this compares to his
home usuage! Only off by a factor of 187! LOL
On Sep 21, 12:32 pm, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Do you really believe that a elementary school uses the same amount of
electricity in a year that 188 homes do? What purpose do you think it
serves to post links to fluff pieces with no real hard data?
On Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:42:57 -0700 (PDT), email@example.com wrote:
It is a high school, just for openers.
Expected Annual Electricity Generation (kWh): 1,576,800
That is over one and a half million kilowatt/hours annually.
Hardly fluff, even if you can't get your puny mind around it.
On Sep 21, 12:59 pm, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Clemente Leadership Academy
Thu, 2009-05-14 17:21 admin Clemente Leadership Academy
360 Columbus Ave.
New Haven, CT 06519
Phone: 203-946-8886 or 203-946-8884
Grade Levels: K- 8
School Population: approx. 400
Hours: 8:35 AM- 2:50 PM
That was the school in the story you cited, was it not?
I'll leave it for others to judge who has the puny mind. Meantime, a
link with some actual data to back up your claims would be a good
On Sep 21, 1:24 pm, email@example.com wrote:
Register this in your mind. A 200KW energy source is incapable of
supplying the realtime needs of 188 homes. I don't give a rat's ass
who makes that claim, it's simply untrue. Why do you think they put
a service capable of 48KW into a typical home today? That's right,
if you could do a bit of math, instead of relying on fluff, you'd see
that a 200amp service can supply 48KW of power to ONE home. If each
house had a mere 1KW load on at the same time, which is actually quite
modest, you're close to the maximum capacity of the fuel cell. Turn
on the AC and see what happens.
They get that number by assuming the fuel cell runs 24/7, producing a
lot of it's power in the middle of night, like 3AM when no one needs
it. Who uses NG to produce electric in the dead of night? Answer:
only a fool or someone who is enjoying a subsidy that someone else is
paying for. In the rest of the world, NG is used to meet PEAK
demand, not run 24/7.
Not necessarily...there are a number of NG-fired baseload units, too...
The local unit here is 55 MWe (1974) NG-fired steam turbine w/ a 15 MW
combined-cycle plant serving the He separation facility and peaking.
In NG-rich areas, they've been the choice for some time and w/ the
present paranoia and railing against C, are likely the near-term answer
elsewhere as well.
Poor choice, but what ya' gonna' do, given the current situation????
Sunflower Electric has plans and is intending to go forward for a new
coal-fired unit, but whether they'll actually manage to get it built is
Undoubtedly that facility could be provided via conventional means more
None I've seen yet says anything at all about the overall $/kwh to the
(local) grid. And, using political clout to get net metering at retail
as opposed to generation rates is another artificial subsidization as well.
Where's the actual cost data if one wants to try to make an economic
That's what I asked/said...
Conventional generation cost data is quite simple to come by; call the
po-co, look at the filings to the governing commission/body in the State
pertinent, etc., etc., etc., ...
You've given no cost data nor any reference to the cost for the subject
I've no dog in the hunt other than it can't be judged how effective a
proposed solution/technology is w/o knowing what it actually costs.
No, I'm asking what the actual $/kwhr are for the installed capacity of
the project(s) you're extolling.
Those are all apparently research papers; the first page was virtually
all fuel cells for automotive application w/ only what appeared a
theoretical analysis for small-scale residential projects in one.
Not useful for the current discussion.
Somebody indicated that the overall power plant project was $6.5M from
Federal funding but there was no breakdown of what that entailed nor
whether that was the whole thing or only a sub-project to compare to
what the alternative choice would have been.
And even before that you have to define what constitutes a cost.
There should be a new symbol created that signifies the price/cost in
units other than just dollars. Reducing everything to dollars gives
solutions that are only figured in dollars and allows people to weasel
around with the 'conversion' rate.
I disagree vehemently. Dollars _is_ the universal, underpinning. It
incorporates cost of raw material, labor, legislative mandates,
everything required to produce the end product, whatever that may be.
Economical solutions will win in the long run over those that aren't and
resources far more rapidly reallocated to those w/ better returns than
Pretty simple. Publish a RFQ for a turn key fuel cell installation that
also includes say 15 years of full maintenance. One of the bid
conditions is that no subsidies can be used. Step two compute the cost
of electricity for the next 15 years.
On 9/21/2010 12:32 PM, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Do you know? Since you are such a proponent of fuel cells (paid for by
others) you must have those numbers at your fingertips.
What is the cost of a traditional genset that would serve an emergency
shelter vs a fuel cell installation (in actual non subsidized dollars)?
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