upvc windows in conservation area.

Hi all, looking to put new windows in a new build that is in a recently designated conser vation area. Local conservation officer has stated that he is looking for timber windows. Given the sash style upvc ones that are available can he insist on this as I am looking for low maintenance. I doubt if anyone would be able to tell the difference unless they got close up. Annoying factor is that only one of the neighbouring six houses has the original timber windows. 4 are upvc and one is aluminium.
Any views greately appreciated.
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AIUI they would be on to you like a sack of bricks if you tried this in Hampstead Garden Suburb. Don't know about other areas though.
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Helen D. Vecht: snipped-for-privacy@zetnet.co.uk
Edgware.
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Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

If you have the vaguest interest in buildings at all then plastic windows can be spotted from half a mile! They may be low (no) maintenance but they are also highly obsolescent and will need replacing in from 5 to max 20 years. Lots of studies show that trad joinery is cheaper and lower maintenance than plastic, in the longer term. Higher initial cost but lower cost overall over time. Also adds to house value: estate agents "retaining original features" means higher value. Plastic windows are also an environmental disaster - not only spoiling the built environment but also using oil reserves and creating a waste disposal problem due to being unrecycleable and short life. The more conservation areas the better for all of us!
cheers Jacob
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'retaining original features' is generally regarded as estate agent speak for 'in need of modernisation'.
The vast majority of people viewing a house on seeing wooden windows would adjust their offer to compensate for the fact that they would be replacing all the windows.
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What evidence do you have fort hat?
Mary

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Maybe on an estate. In my area, plastic windows knock 10 grand off over original sashes in good condition.
Christian.
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I wouldn't buy a house with them at any price.
Mary

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Mary Fisher wrote:

    That's where the beauty of personal choice comes in. You should be free to purchase a house with inferior wooden fittings if you so desire. This is how British villages developed, with everybody doing their own thing. Grade 11 listing and conservation areas are anathema to a progressive democratic way of life and should be removed as fast as possible from the nation. If you want this type of regulated society, then run a local referendum and get 66% of all the registered voters to agree to it, otherwise, form a company, sell shares and purchase a village where all the inhabitants are prepared to pay for their beliefs.
    Or do you believe in the political divine righteousness of simply telling others how to live?
    Regards     Capitol
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They're called conservation areas. Please don't buy a house in one. Some people have taste and don't want to live next to your plastic windowed stone clad monstrosity with a Sky dish on the front.
Christian.
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Christian McArdle wrote:

    Ooh, touchy. Taste being a matter of opinion and fashion, some people have it and some don't. IMO, you easily fall into the latter category. Conservation areas for your enlightenment, are not owned as I described. Mainly "wanna be's" IME buy a house in a conservation area. They're too busy being image conscious to have any brave new ideas of their own. They also tend to be Guardian readers, described as "the newspaper for people who don't know how to think for themselves". "dIMM" reads it!
    LOL     Regards     Capitol
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On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 21:12:50 +0000, Capitol

Ad hominen...

OK, let's hear some of your brave new ideas....
cheers, Pete.
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snipped-for-privacy@googlemail.com wrote:

You are of course talking out of your behind.
I have no problem with someone disliking uPVC windows, but don't try to argue that they are more 'environmentally friendly' - not by a long way.
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Grunff

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snipped-for-privacy@googlemail.com wrote:

    What a total pile of opinionated crap. Do you design for "Changing rooms" in your spare time?
    PVC windows have a life in excess of at least 30 years in the British climate and designs can be far superior to wood. In all probability they will last for well over a century. Maintenance is normally only a case of replacing the sealing rubber when it shrinks. Wooden windows are yesterdays technology and far more expensive when total cost through the life cycle is considered. IME they all warp, rot, become draughty and generally are a typical British unreliable high maintenance product. Having seen the wooden product in the USA with exactly the same problems, there's no way I'd go back to high maintenance wooden windows.     I think they come under the same category as Aga's, trendy at the moment, but functionally obsolete.     The pvc is recyclable, the US does it. Anyway, why would you want to recycle something which is perfectly functional?      Whenever I see a house without pvc windows, I immediately knock 20K off the asking price to allow for replacement windows.     Conservation areas?, the Americans have a much better system, they tear it down after 40 years and rebuild it with todays fittings and technology.     Not many real people want to live in museums, hence the demand for new houses, sadly built with cheap and nasty wooden windows to reduce the developers initial costs, so the buyers have to replace them with pvc 10-20 years later.
    Regards     Capitol
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Capitol wrote:

Difficult to demonstrate as the industry is barely that old. What is certainly true is that very many plastic windows aged 15 years or more have failed and been replaced.

Laughable nonsense - just take a look at the pathetic condition of a 20 year old window if you can find one.

This is true at about 5 / 10 years. Much longer than that then the replacement profiles start being un-obtainable, and all sorts of other things fail - hinges, catches and the surface of the plastic itself.

True, and todays and tomorrows

Untrue - there have been many studies of this.

Plastic windows also warp, deteriorate and become draughty - but are harder or impossible to repair

Does it? How?

When it is scrapped at about 20 years on.

Period properties, conservation areas, listed buildings are all seen as highly desireable and this is reflected in higher prices, all over Britain. Too high IMO - my daughter recently bought a 20s brick house (with plastic windows) in a pretty village, it was about half the price of anything similar but old and stonebuilt with sash windows. A snip in fact.
cheers
Jacob
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On 23 Jan 2006 00:19:18 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@googlemail.com wrote:

My upvc windows and doors are 15 years old and haven't needed *anything* replaced in that time,
Cheers,
John
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snipped-for-privacy@googlemail.com wrote: <snip>

To drag this off on a tangent (or allow it to fly free).
If your carpenter and installers are living in a modern society, then they are also using oil to get to work every day, to grow their food, ...
You can't simply say "wood and lime good, cement and UPVC bad".
Yes, wood and lime may use less energy to produce than UPVC and cement. But if they take more people to install, and those people use more resources when installing them, it's a net loss.
Per capita UK emissions of CO2 are about 2500Kg.
I'd really like to see some numbers broken down accurately by building type.
However. Use cement, and build rigidly, and you've pretty much got to build on a rigid structure, meaning hugely extensive foundations.
Use lime, and allow the building to flex, and you can reduce these.
The 'right' way to solve this I suspect is prizes.
Set goals, which might be CO2 emission, operating cost, price, ... for a house.
Scrap _all_ building/fire/planning regulations for these, and instead rely on a detailed engineering survey to ensure they meet the spirit of the regs. Rewrite the regs if required.
Award a prize for the 'best' house of several million.
Copy.
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What a sensible post!
Mary

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On 22 Jan 2006 20:47:54 GMT Ian Stirling wrote :

The energy regs change in April. A quick and dirty summary of the requirement is: work out the CO2 emissions for a house of your proposed size built to the 2002 regs. The estimated CO2 emissions from your house have to be 20% less than this. How you achieve this is up to you - more insulation, better windows, condensing boiler, solar panel are all options
One of the changes is to allow manufacturer's certified figures for windows: the very best windows now have a negative energy figure - the solar energy they let in exceeds the heat that leaks out.
More on this at http://www.bfrc.org/Contents.htm
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Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
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That's interesting.

Our solar panel was connected last Sunday and it's working!

I think our windows must be like that even though we have a lot of glass. At night, when they could leak heat perhaps, the curtains are drawn in heated rooms.

Thank you,
Mary

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Tony Bryer wrote:

What everybody overlooks with energy saving measures is that fitting double glazing is about the least cost effective energy saving measure you can put inplace, compared to all the other things such as replacing old boilers with condensers, insulation, draught proofing etc. You can prove this for yourself if you do the calcs for your house.
cheers
Jacob
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