UK wiring diagrams domestic

Hello all, does anyone know where I can get some clear wiring diagrams for a two way switch on a lighting circuit. I am building an extension and am going to do the first fix myself ( which i beleive i am allowed to do?) and then get someone part P to do the rest as its a kitchen.

The ring mains will be no issue and the single lighting cct for upstairs will be no issue.

what i am uncertain of is i need to switch one light in the kitchen from two locations and another light from just one. I know i'll need a

2G two way switch on one side and a 1G two way on't tother its just the

wiring inbetween em thats a bit flummoxing!!! I'm no lemon ( electronic

engineering) but havent done any domestic installations before. I take it i will need three and earth between the 2 way switch and then use the other switch for switching the "one location" light

dunno if I'm making sense!!!

also does anyone know the regs required for depth of channels in walls for cables and also what is required in the way of conduit/covers for the cables in the channels?

Thanks in advance

Reply to
steve
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For circuit wiring see

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Reply to
Phil Anthropist

You can do all of it provided that it is included in the scope for the building control application and is inspected afterwards. You are having to pay for this anyway, so you might as well make the most of it and DIY the work.

There are several different ways to do this depending on how you want the wiring to run.

The most common is to run the lighting circuit between the ceiling fittings and to run a twin+earth cable to the switch.

However, for this case, another option is to run a three way plus earth to the 2G switch from the first light fitting and carry neutral as well. Wire the unswitched live to the common of both switches. Run another three way plus earth to the second 1G 2way switch carrying the two connectiions from the 2W switch plus neutral. Then connect the two switched connections to this switch. The common of this second switch will now form the switched live to the light fitting and you can carry through the neutral and earth.

You can avoid this issue completely by adhering to some cable routing rules.

- Cables may be run vertically or horizontally from a wiring accesory (e.g. switch).

- Cables may also be run in a 150mm wide band from the corner of a room, the top of a wall but not the bottom of a wall (i.e. not behind skirtings.

Reply to
Andy Hall

On 3 Sep 2006 10:59:11 -0700 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@staffbull.net wrote this:-

If you visit a big red shed and buy an individual light switch then these usually come in a plastic bag. In these plastic bags there is usually a folded up piece of paper, upon which there are some black pixels (usually called ink, the overall process is called printing). The pixels on the paper, think of them as a screen, tend to contain the information you are looking for:-)

I hope you haven't done any industrial or commercial electrical installations before. No smiley there, deliberately.

I suggest that you need to, as a minimum, read the information set out in

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and far better purchase or borrow the book it refers to.

Reply to
David Hansen

L1 L1 0===========0 0===========0============= Line | \ / | C 0================================O C \ / \ / 0===========0 0===========0============= Switch return L2 Optional L2 Intermediate

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

//snip//

It would seem you need to reorient yourself. There's a major change of emphasis in electrical theory when you switch to domestic 240V house wiring from electronics. In domestic cabling the cables may carry heavy currents & thus get warm & drop appreciable voltage over the run. Circuit calcs & routes have to allow for this so the cable does not get overhot (normal limt 70degC) & keep voltage drop to

Reply to
jim

Reply to
steve

I have ordered a book on the subject, and have been told on another group I can do all the work myself if I am submitting full plans (which I have)

Reply to
steve

//snip//

Regret I do not follow your drift, but it does rather sound as if you ARE doing some installation as you are talking about channelling into a wall.

Judging from your initial post it might be advisable to pause a while for some basic study before you make a BIG expensive error due to transferring assumptions that you might make in electronics to domestic cabling & finding they don't apply.

To put it another way, generally terms in the electrical equations/calculations which vanish in electronics don't in domestic cabling & vice versa.

If you know your electronics there should be no trouble understanding the different flavour of electrical theory as applied to wiring.

Take care.

Reply to
jim

If I follow the guides for cable sizes with regards floor area and cable length and follow installation as per regulations I cant see where I can go wrong. I am only installing one consumer unit two ring mains ( one spur off one for an extractor hood) two lighting ccts one switching two ceiling roses and one switching one light two way and another one way. A cooker and hob, earth all pipework with 6mm? earth bond and straps the runs for the cooker and hob will be 5 metres so I take it I will use 16mm,

the only thing I cant work out in my head is the double switch, but the book should sort that out.

I would like to complete it myself as I enjoy the "DIY" thing, the plumbing will be fine as well as the extension of the heating system.

Reply to
steve

As long as the plans mention the wiring then you should be covered. You will need to find out what your local BCO is like, and at what stages (if any) he would like to inspect the work.

Reply to
John Rumm

//snip//

My point is that you'd be far better placed to undertake this work if you have a basic understanding of why the 'guides' are as they are. & if you know your electronics, it isn't rocket science.

No objection to you doing it all yourself, indeed quite the opposite as I'm right behind you, but please take a little time to understand the different flavour of domestic wiring over electronic circuits.

There's all the advice you need available on this group.

But if you end up having to correct or redo your work that will take far more time than you'd spend taking stock now. Replacing electric cable buried in a wall is a messy slow job (and the plaster finish never goes back flat like it was), plus throwing away wrong fittings & buying replacements is expensive.

Your query re connecting light switches is, to me, just an indicator that some taking stock is needed. Electronics is full of multi-gang, multi-way, multi-pole switches which seldom occur in wiring. Same theory but a different way of looking at things.

Your mention of 6mm2 earth bond (above) sounds out of kilter too. You'd be wise to google this group on the subject of bonding & earthing (which are different things and another major departure point between wiring practice & electronics). There's been a regular flow of threads on these subjects over the last 2 or 3 years.

I'm also apprehensive as to where you have obtained your cable size and length recommendations [eg 5m x 16mm" cable?? - most new cookers are rated for a 30A circuit, so 6mm2 is usually sufficient & if not,

10mm2.].

If you are installing a consumer unit then technically it should have the disconnect time checked, though I'd be sure many new ones go in unchecked on the basis of them having been factory QC tested. There's several other things like earth leakage which should be checked as well.

A quick scan of

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might help you understand something of the issues involved:

Please take stock before getting down to work.

Good luck.

.
Reply to
jim

I would second that advice.

A few other things to consider as well:

- Before you start you will need to do your calculations for cable sizes and the like. There are many things to take into consideration here such as diversity, voltage drop, grouping factors and the like.

- Your new installation will need to comply with the Building Regs (parts L,M &P in particular) as well as the IEE Wiring Regs, but your BCO can help to guide you.

- Sockets that could be used to supply outdoor equipment should be protected by a RCD. It is good practice to make sure the RCD tripping does not switch off other circuits where there could be an impact on safety.

- You will need to purchase or hire the appropriate test gear, as most multi-meters are not up to the job. You should also look up how to fill in the associated paperwork. The forms tend to use a lot of abbreviations (such as TN-C-S, PFC, Ze, Zs, R1+R2) but a good guide to the subject will cover this.

Incidentally your earthing conductor between the Board's earth terminal (or the earth electrode in TT systems) and your main earthing terminal should be 16mm. The main equipotential bonding conductors to the water and gas will be 10mm, and supplementary equipotential bonding conductors are normally 4mm.

A quick search in Google for "two way switching" should also produce results.

Very good. There's no reason why you should not do so. It will be a steep learning curve though.

John

Reply to
John White

Two way wiring can be found here

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three way wiring here
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incas

-- weekendwarrior

Reply to
weekendwarrior

On 3 Sep 2006 15:01:35 -0700 someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@staffbull.net wrote this:-

Then you have a very high opinion of your skills. The question about two-way switching indicates that they might not be as high as you think.

Those of us who have done such wiring for a few decades know all sorts of ways we can go wrong. However, inspection and testing usually spots where we have gone wrong before there is a bang or fire.

I suspect that most of those on this group would like to help, in a small way, you get this satisfaction. However, this sort of electricity is not to be trifled with. While it is not as bad as say

11,000V it still has bite. Think of a large power station and then ponder on the fact that your meter tails are connected to that large power station. If something goes wrong at your consumer unit then it is likely that many thousands of amps will flow, hopefully not for long but still for long enough for things to get somewhat warm.
Reply to
David Hansen

Thanks, I have been told that if the wiring is on plan and i do the work myself and its inspected as per BCO, if there is need for testing then BC carry this out and have to bear the expense.

Reply to
steve

It will depend on the attitude of the BCO and the department in general. They should not in theory pass on additional costs, but that does not stop councils from having a policy of doing so. If you can convince your BCO that you know what you are doing, he may be happy to let you do all the work and testing. This obviously works in you favour since you won't need to stop work to allow inspections etc and can just get on with the job.

Reply to
John Rumm

If my understanding is correct, Part M will probably not have that much impact when extending an existing property (as opposed to a new build). As long as the work you do does not make it any worse than it was from a disabled access point of view.

Reply to
John Rumm

Just check that the BCO will give a completion certificate and not say (as some are) that it's fine for you to do the work, but they have no one qualified to inspect and so won't give a completion certificate.

Good easy book is the electrical section in Jackson - Day (Collins) which you used to be able to buy as a separate book. Not sure if it's updated for new colours but just write the conversion on the relevant pages to make sure you get it right. (I've got a degree in electrical engineering and understand all the theory, but I can still never remember what a 2-way lighting circuit looks like and the info on the leaflet in the package is not user-friendly.) If you add the on-site guide you should be able to do everything provided you don't go outside the table in the on-site guide. Then all you need to do calculations wise is to check cable ratings given cable derating for insulation and running together. If you stay inside the table then you can be pretty confident on voltage drop and disconnection times.

Fash

Reply to
Fash

That's always how I've read it as well. In fact I would argue that the wording of Section 8 is so broad that it is difficult NOT to comply with it.

I only mention it as one local BCO always raises the subject when he is brought in for Part P.

John

Reply to
John White

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