Thermal insulation and soundproofing

My garage needs to be insulated and soundproofed.
It needs to be particularly well insulated, because there will only be ad-hoc heating in it, but it also needs extra soundproofing. I understand that thermal insulation materials are not very good for soundproofing.
It's a brick building, and will have internal dry walls for the insulation.
What soundproofing products for such construction are readily available in the UK?
Daniele
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On 15 Jan, 08:50, snipped-for-privacy@apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida) wrote:

Daniele I can't offer you assistance on the sound proofing - I guess from your previous posts on tape recorder repairs that you are making a sound studio. It might be relevent to say if you are trying to keep sound in or out !!
On the insulation front there is the likes of Kingspan which being solid - unlike fibreglass - may also be effective in sound deadening.
One thing to be aware of is that there should be a damp proof membrane to prevent moist air getting into the insulation. I've recently fully insulated a small workshop and have had to fit humidity sensing extraction as there was a condensation problem when I had finished working in it and put the heating off.
Rob
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Concrete, brick all very good at sound proofing. You just want as much mass as possible so the sound can't escape (cellars tend to be pretty sound proof as far as the walls go).
Or do you mean you want to absorb the sound so it doesn't sound like you are in a brick building? Then you need to look at fibre board, curtains, etc.
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D.M. Procida wrote:

The thicker the plasterboard the better. Rockwool filling in the cavity both insulates and damps vibration.
NT
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In article

Indeed - apart from the word 'insulating' the two approaches are very different.

Basically you need to add mass to stop airborne sounds and some form of decoupling to prevent structure borne ones.
A second stud wall (and ceiling) spaced away from the brick one by as far as is practical with several layers of plasterboard might be your cheapest route. Don't forget the doors - double heavy ones with an 'airlock' between might be the easiest route. With good seals all round.
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

We dont really know how much NR Daniele wants, or how much trouble and expense he's prepared to go to. It would help if the OP gave more details re application, budget etc.
NT
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I want to prevent as much sound as possible from entering or leaving - as Rob suggested, I'd like to build a little recording studio in there, and don't want to upset the neighbours, even with a drummer playing.
I don't really have that much of a budget, but I do have plenty of time and energy to throw at it instead, if there are any reasonable DIY techniques. However, I do have carte blanche pretty much to do whatever the hell I like in there, so it doesn't need to meet with anyone else's approval or needs.
In the US - possibly here - you can get a viscoelastic polymer called Green Glue, that you sandwich between plasterboards. Apparently this is a viable way of damping them, and creating a non-resonant and sound absorbant mass. That sounds like it might be a way forward.
Daniele
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D.M. Procida wrote: <>

<http://www.greenglue.co.uk/
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My God that stuff is expensive.
One uses approximately 1 tube of ot per square metre; a case of 12 tubes costs 161!
Daniele
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Re: Thermal insulation and soundproofing
Building another wall inside with brick or block seems the cheapest solution to me... with rockwool or sand in the gap.
But you'd lose 12ish inces of space.
I have a similar project on the dividing wall between the policelady next door and my potential music room...
[g]
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In article

To completely eliminate the sound of drums at full pelt ain't going to be easy.
Place I used to work at had a very nice 24 track studio - large enough to take a full orchestra. And you could still hear the drums outside the double doors. And through the floor on occasions. If you have neighbours who are used to peace and quiet - don't always have the radio etc on - I'd say you're in trouble.
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On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:47:02 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

Sack the drummer and employ a drum machine DI'd into the mixing desk.
As well as not annoying your neighbours drum machines don't drink, fart, blow up your toilets or drive your car into a swimming pool.
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Mike wrote:

Drums are hard..best is a complete new blockwork wall inside the existing, no windows, and air con system. Also consider a block and beam false CEILING.
You will also need to line the blockwork with egg cartons or similar to break up reflections.
Then you can stuff styrene sheets between the walls for insulation.
You also need double doors, and beware the fire safety regs.
Make sure aircon ducts go UPWARDS.
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You're thinking a lot bigger than I am...

Sadly, egg cartons don't - despite legend - have any acoustical properties worth making use of.
Daniele
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In article

They can have *some* use for acoustic treatment of a room - but that's a different matter from sound insulation.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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D.M. Procida wrote:

Well I had occasion to be around a fair few rehearsal rooms and the odd small studio at one time.
Lots of mass is what it takes.

They are a fuck of a sight better than a bare blockwork wall. They really do reduce reverb levels a lot.
As will e.g hanging carpet down the walls.

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I'm not anticipating very loud drums or amplification, fortunately.

It's a garage, and fortunately not too close to any of the houses. However, I still don't want to upset the neighbours who might be enjoying their gardens.
One one side of the garage, for nearly its full length, is a lean-to bike shed; on the other side of that is the neighbour's garage. And on the other side of the garage is the other neighbour's garage.
The sound will certainly penetrate the folding timber doors of the garage, and probably the roof, more than the brick walls.
Daniele
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In article <1itns54.dbv7agvjvg9hN%real-not-anti-spam-address@apple-
juice.co.uk> scribeth thus

FWIW
I've got an ex garage now office/listening room some 20 feet square and its surprising just how loud I can make it in there without upsetting anyone..
Supposed as its all standalone and decoupled makes the difference..

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Tony Sayer




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D.M. Procida wrote:

In that case you'll want to use all the options: a high mass second leaf with thick plaster, decoupling it from the brick/block wall, damping it and rockwool in the cavity to absorb airborne sound between the 2 leaves. You can also put concrete blocks as weights on the noggings.
You can get things like MLV (mass loaded vinyl), but they all cost money.
NT
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The message
from snipped-for-privacy@apple-juice.co.uk (D.M. Procida) contains these words:

Density and Decoupling are the two main requirements for sound absorption, so the best materials are loose and heavy: sand and earth.
For a recording studio I would build a wooden frame of, say, 2" x 2" battens as far inside the brick wall as you can bear to lose space, but a minimum of 3" I'd think, and fill the gap with loose dry sand in plastic bags, pedal-bin liners for example. I would fix something like weldmesh to the inner edges of the frame uprights (ie., between the frame and the brick) as I went up with the sandbags to keep them in place. The sand would entirely fill the gap between brick wall and frame but it wouldn't create an acoustic bridge and would be highly absorbent in both directions.
The same sort of thing would work for the ceiling or roof. The great bane of recording studios these days is aircraft noise, but sand could take care of that too. Because of the weight, some reinforcement of the roof structure would undoubtedly be needed. Depending on what sort of garage it is --detached or otherwise-- sandbags could either be placed on top of the existing roof with an additional weatherproof covering added, or sit on top of an internal ceiling, probably of plywood or similar. Another idea would be to have a turf roof and not worry about the weather.
Inside again, the spaces between the 2" x 2" uprights could be filled with various sheet materials, depending a bit on what sort of acoustic you wanted to create, harder surfaces creating brighter acoustics, absorbent ones doing the opposite. You can get properly tuned acoustic foams to absorb different parts of the sound spectrum but they cost a lot.
I don't know if the floor would need treatment of any kind. A concrete slab on earth is pretty deadening, I would have thought. But if train or traffic rumble, for instance, was getting picked up then a floating floor of carpeted chipboard flooring just sitting on sand would reduce it well.
I'm assuming you can fill in the original garage door opening and get access another way? Trying to sound insulate an up-and-over door would be a *real* challenge. Sand may not have been what you were thinking of, but it's cheap, readily available, and will do the job better than anything. The inner frame would need to be well built, but it only has to keep the sand upright, not support its weight.
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