There's a rat my loft (what am I gonna do?)

When did you last (have to) go hunting for your food then Dave? ;-)

We learned how to do all that by mostly living off fruits, nuts and berries of course. ;-)

Nor for all of us. Some of those of us who do have the choice have chosen to not exploit animals, have seen though that indoctrination and try to eat and live more responsibly.

Yup ... and generally when there is no other choice.

'Man' has (or should have in more cases) used that big brain of our to evolved to make better uses of the resources and reduce the pollution whilst being able to feed more people and do so more healthily. Are we are, just the message is taking a while to sink in (of course).

Cheers, T i m

OK, minor update.

Have cemented up the holes on the neighbours side. If it was getting in and out through there, it won't be any more.

Have also blobbed a bit of peanut butter on the bait blocks in the box, so if the blighter is still inside, hopefully that will entice it to take the bait next time it goes on a food hunt.

Nothing on the monitor so far, so we shall see.

Our closest relatives the Bonobos and Chimpanzees have raw meat in their diets.

Andy

Sure ... so how often do *you* eat raw meat then? There is some hilarious footage on Youtube of a carnist activist talking to Ed Winters and is sucking on the same lump of meat all the time they are talking. ;-)

It's the same as those who quote that dogs evolved from wolves , which they did, but living alongside man for thousands of years has meant they have evolved so can now process starch in a way wolves can't.

In the same way that our consumption of meat and so the B12 the animals were producing (because of the cobalt in the environment 'then') means we mutated and started producing ours in the wrong intestine. ;-(

So whilst we may share many of the characteristics of animals similar to us, we can also be different in subtle ways that can make a big difference on what we can (or can't) do.

One massive thing we can do and most animals still can't is buy stuff in supermarkets. They don't generally have the choice, they don't have the excuse. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

and in fact we can easily digest raw meat, eggs and fish. The piles of feathers on my lawn show that other carnivores do not eat feathers either, and cat fur balls show they can digest fur, either

In short T i m is, as usual, constructing a fairy story to suit his prejudices.

'cat fur balls show they *can't* digest fur'. There, corrected it for you.

We can probably digest bone, given time. Kodak used to make the gelatin for their photographic plates etc. by digesting cattle bone chips in fairly dilute HCl, about pH 3.5 IIRC, when the calcium phosphate dissolves leaving rubbery lumps of gelatin that are filtered off, and the calcium phosphate re-precipitated by raising the pH of the filtrate. Whether that process is still used, I don't know; I visited a plant somewhere in the Eastern US many years ago and saw it, but that plant is closed now.

Stomach acid is significantly stronger than used there, although the process took several days, and I doubt bone would remain in your stomach for long enough unless it was very finely ground, but in principle it could happen.

What a wastrel you are.

Meat is eaten Fur is used for clothing Feathers for insulation, tools, or decoration Skin used for clothing Bone for tools or decoration.

With your disconnected-background throwaway approach, you'd never survive an apocalypse, would you, especially as your vital dietary supplements would no longer be available.

It's very easy to cite example of things that don't fit a particular statement when the statement is generally true. A dog (for example)

Just because the animals that are killing things and leaving some of their remains on TNP's lawn goes no way to contradict my statement.

Except that time isn't under our control is it so in general we can't. We can't because our digestive systems aren't strong enough to do so, unlike obligate carnivores and opportunist meat eating omnivores like dogs.

Yum. ;-)

For good reason by the sound of it. ;-)

Sure ... but doesn't, because we *certainly aren't* obligate carnivores and aren't even equipped to catch, dispatch, butcher and consume most meats without the aid of tools (that aren't part of our bodies as they are with those animals that are able to consume raw meat, like claws and *real* canine teeth and short but strong digestive systems[1]).

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I saw a thing on TV the other day where a lizard, about to be predated by a snake, flipped itself on its back and pretended it was dead and the snake slithered on past. ;-)

That came about because humans developed superior brains instead of big teeth and so thought their way through these issues instead, subjugating fire, developing tools, undertaking agriculture and animal husbandry, living in communities, etc. Just because virtue-signalling vegans like you are now attempting to put that particular toothpaste back in the tube doesn't make it any the less true. We are not obligate shelter-dwellers, but a pound to a pinch of B12 says you won't be abandoning your warm, dry, refrigerator-equipped, beer-swilling house-living style any time soon, to live under a bush instead.

I saw about 6 in the roof space (not really a loft) I was in today. There were probably more but that is how many I saw run away.

Plenty of rat poison around, plenty of voids.