The "Viking disease"

I know that is a risk - it seems that some people get a permanent fix and some don't. I had a choice of surgeons and chose the one my GP (whom I trust) thought was by far the best. There are lots of factors - the surgeon being only one.

BTW - your newsreader doesn't seem to be trimming out signatures...

Reply to
Bob Eager
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Frankly, I don't know. It should be made clear that I took the supplementation for arthritic joints, and the DC cleared up as well. I think glucosamine is part of the building-blocks for connective tissue, so it could be down to that.

Interestingly, the arthritic bone growth on my knuckle also disappeared, although I can't recall the timescale of that, but that on my big toe hasn't. Neither cause any discomfort these days, so long as the supplementation continues. I've tried missing it out, but the joint pains always come back.

Reply to
Terry Fields

Thanks for the info and the references in the other post. I'm getting the impression that selenium is an understated dietary requirement. I first got interested in this subject at the time of Linus Pauling, and over the years have gained the impression that micronutrients have been a victim of their own success, such as the

50mg vitC per day to prevent scurvey.

Tests in animals show that nearly all produce their own vitC internally so don't need it as part of their diet, whereas humans do. A polar bear has cholesterol levels that would finish a human in short order, but it also has blood levels of vitC that equate to something like a human taking 5 - 10 grams a day. Polar bears don't get heart attacks... I feel this is an area that no-one's really exploring; big pharma companies make money from new drugs, but there is no fortune to be made from micronutrients.

Reply to
Terry Fields

Many thanks for taking the time to put together the comprehensive information. It's a fascinating subject, and one I'll be following up.

Reply to
Terry Fields

impression that selenium is an

time of Linus Pauling, and over the

their own success, such as the

don't need it as part of their diet,

human in short order, but it also has

a day. Polar bears don't get heart

companies make money from new

Agreed. Selenium is under-recognised. There is not even any useful c "Ascorbate [...] is made internally by almost all organisms; the main exceptions are bats, guinea pigs, capybaras, and the Anthropoidea (i.e., Haplorrhini, one of the two major primate suborders, consisting of tarsiers, monkeys, and humans and other apes). Ascorbate is also not synthesized by some species of birds and fish. All species that do not synthesize ascorbate require it in the diet."

Reply to
polygonum

That's very good point. No plant is going to contain any particular element if that element isn't present in the soil where the plant grows. It's not as though the plant can synthesize it from fresh air. I suspect not a lot of people realise that. Chemical compounds are different of course, as long as that compound doesn't require a specific element in the soil for its synthesis.

Reply to
Chris Hogg

Incidentally, and depending which

While fascinating, what I don't quite get about all this ancestral DNA analysis is why virtually everyone doesn't have all the same ancestry? As in, take someone like me who is "White British"; I've done a bit of genealogical research on my roots and for example if I go back 5 generations, every single one of my gt-gt-gt grandparents was also white british - that's 32 individuals, each of whom contribute 3% of my DNA. Go back another 5 generations and we're over 1000 DNA inputs; go back 50 generations (which I would guess is round about the time the Vikings were doing their thing here) and we're at a mind-boggling 10 to the power of 15; compare that with the UK population at the time (say 2 million?) and if I'm doing my sums right, that's a factor of 500 billion.

In other words, there must have been massive cross-breeding of the population and diluting/mixing of the DNA here since Viking times, and surely it would be incredibly *unlikely* that anybody in my position would *not* have Viking blood (or Roman, or Anglo-Saxon) in them?

And doesn't the same thing apply to tracing your roots back to the first emigrants from Africa etc? etc?

Reply to
Lobster

There is always the possibility, however, that unless selenium levels are adequate (and would result in decent levels in the nuts), the tree itself would not be healthy, or maybe would not produce nuts. I simply have not looked hard enough to find out if this is the case.

And simply to ensure no-one else brings it up...

"Botanically the Brazil is actually a seed, rather than a nut ? the nut is the coconut-sized thing."

Reply to
polygonum

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Wow! I never knew there was a name for it. I've had it for about 10 years (started age about 50). Other than looking slightly odd I haven't felt any other effects and it doesn't seem to have got any worse over the years. Perhaps real ale inhibits its progress :-)

Biggles

Reply to
Biggles

My Dupuytren's was getting worse until I started being more careful with my hands. I now avoid knocking the palms of my hands. So no more loud clappin g, no holding hammer drills in the palms, no winding up tram jacks 500 time s! They have been unchanged for about 6 years now.

Reply to
Matty F

hands. I now avoid knocking the palms of my hands. So no more loud clapping, no holding hammer drills in the palms, no winding up tram jacks 500 times! They have been unchanged for about 6 years now.

On the other hand ( :-) ), it could be the selenium content of the ale:

"Beer contains significant amounts of magnesium, selenium, potassium, phosphorus, biotin, and is chock full of B vitamins."

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(That was simply the first site that made a specific reference. I think I have read about it before - ICBW.)

Reply to
polygonum

I'm not sure I can give you a comprehensive answer. In theory you are right; our genes are a complex mix of those of all our antecedents. Every generation you go back increases the number of direct ancestors by a factor of two. Going back 50 generations means that we have 1.1

*10^15 ancestors. Fine in theory, but at some point the number of ancestors exceeds the population of the world at that time. Clearly, the theoretical approach can't represent reality. It doesn't take into account inter-family marriages; not necessarily close family, but second and third cousins etc.

The same holds good for smaller populations, not just global ones, because in the past people didn't travel a great deal. You married the girl from the next village, with there being a good chance that the pair of you were distantly related. In millennia past, slow migration was the order of the day, and once a community found a good place to live, they stayed there and the population grew, with only a few migrating on to other places. Echoes of those gene populations still exist in populations around the world today.

For example, the western side of the UK (Cornwall, Wales, Ireland and western Scotland) still contains a significant proportion of the population whose genes can be traced back to their distant ancestors who migrated along the coastal route up the Spanish peninsula, up the coast of France, and up the west coast of what is now Britain and Ireland. Remember that the English Channel didn't exist then; sea levels were some 150 metres lower than they are now, with the water all locked up in the polar ice sheets left over from the last ice age. What is now the Channel was just a wide flat plain with a large river flowing across it, fed by what are now the Seine, the Rhine and the Thames, as well as other smaller rivers. Britain and Ireland were similarly joined.

Another point to make is that genetic analysis of this sort is done only on specific genes. For men only, it is the genes on the y-chromosome (Y-DNA); the y-chromosome doesn't get diluted from generation to generation, unlike the other 23 chromosomes. For both men and women, it's the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), which passes unchanged down the female line (men don't pass on their mother's mitochondrial DNA). Men carry both the Y-DNA from their fathers and the mtDNA from their mothers. Women only carry only mtDNA from their mothers (being women, they don't have a male, y-chromosome). For example, most (but not all) of my genes are one quarter from my father's mother, one quarter from my father's father, one quarter from my mother's mother and one quarter from my mother's father, and going back through the generations gives even more dilution, as you suggested. But the DNA on the y-chromosome in men remains unchanged. My Y-DNA is the same as my father's, the same as his father's, and all their father's before that, stretching back to Adam, if you like. Similarly with mitochondrial DNA. Mine is the same as my mother's, the same as her mother's and so on all the way back to Eve.

Except that this is ever so slightly not quite the case. Along that long chain of ancestors, just occasionally a mutation occurs, and you then get a second line of, for example Y-DNA, created. These mutations are for the most part benign, with no obvious consequence, but they can be traced by DNA analysis. As well as having diagrams of one's immediate family tree, geneticists have established diagrams of distant ancestry trees that have a broadly similar appearance. Because statistically these mutations occur at roughly the same rate (one every thousand years, for example, to pick a number out of the blue; I'm not sure what the real rate is), it's possible to estimate roughly how long ago any specific mutation occurred, and thus when particular events took place such as the emigration of the single Homo sapiens family out of Africa, from whom all non-Africans are descended.

An example where such a mutation has a obvious effect is in blue eyes. Before about 10,000 years ago, nobody had blue eyes; everyone had brown eyes. But then a mutation occurred in one person's genes which mean that the brown pigment didn't develop, and the underlying blue was revealed. That one person had children and passed that mutation on to them, and so it spread, so that all the blue-eyed people in the world share a common, single ?female ancestor, about 10,000 years ago who lived in Mesopotamia. See

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but her relatives, and everyone else alive then, still carried the original, unmutated gene, thus establishing an additional gene line. I expect the gene for red hair can be traced back to a single person in the same way.

It's an enormous subject, and growing all the time. I'm sure I haven't answered your points very well, but if you want to know more, here are some books that might interest you:

Blood of the Isles, by Bryan Sykes, Corgi 2006 The Seven Daughters of Eve, by Bryan Sykes, Corgi 2002 Out of Eden, by Stephen Oppenheimer, Constable and Robinson, 2003 The Origins of the British, by Stephen Oppenheimer, Constable and Robinson, 2007 The Incredible Human Journey, by Alice Roberts (of TV fame), Bloomsbury, 2010

I find Sykes easier reading the Oppenheimer.

Reply to
Chris Hogg

Nah, I know four people who have it.

Lots of Celt/Viking descendants in the UK. Stories about the efficacy of treatment vary, some doctors seem to misdiagnose it as RSI.

Reply to
Steve Firth

In the thyroid world many, many feel they are alone in their suffering for various reasons. (All too often when repeatedly told by medics that everyone else they treat gets better. So why aren't they running marathons?) RSI diagnoses are rife there as well - though often resolving upon treatment. Joining a support group seems to help many. In this case, one relevant organisation might be:

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Who apparently work alongside the international mob:

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Reply to
polygonum

Thanks for the lesson! fascinating topic.

Reply to
Lobster

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