The Oddity of Ploddity

[Jimk]

And then what? A quick referendum?

[Gareth Evans]

There has been generally a good response to the requirement for self-isolation but with the tradition in Britain of cocking a snoop at authoritarian jobsworths is it really necessary now to threaten enforcement, especially when we learn that in Sweden there are to be no restrictions at all?

What I do not understand is how can the police forces find the manpower to harass Joe Bloggs going about his lawful daily pursuit but cannot otherwise deal with domestic burglaries?

[Tim Streater]

Another one who hasn't noticed that:

Sweden: pop. density 60/sq. mile UK: pop. density 700/sq. mile, with: England: pop. density 1100/sq. mile

Lockdown is the only way, although whether people will put up with it is another matter.

[GB]

Stockholm population density is 13,000/sq. mile. That's not much different from London.

[Michael Chare]

What I presume are averages are not much help. South Korea would appear to be handling very well. No lock down, much testing and follow up.

[Robin]

It may be the only practicable way for the infantilised UK population but I would have been keen to hear other options that traded more deaths now for a wealthier, healthier and happier population later.

And I don't have children so that's not just selfish genes talking.

[Richard]

Lets see how it goes:

[Gareth Evans]

... and the population density in Stockholm, the capital of Sweden is? ...

[Gareth Evans]

Excessive bureaucracy and nannying by the Conservatives will count against them at the next election, especially if it turns out that Sweden and Iceland are correct.

Also, the traditional trust that the Brit has in his plodderies may well vanish.

[Richard]

.. probably going to take a hit when Covid 19 takes hold.

[polygonum_on_google]

Iceland appears to be at the very top of the testing charts. Which might be rather sensible.

[Maxwell Boltzmann]

Gareth Evans [e-mail] posted

I think that has been severely damaged in recent times anyway, what with Carl Beech, Count Dankula, Rotherham etc, and the enthusiasm for investigating trivia on Facebook while not bothering to turn up for burglaries and assaults.

[John_j]

What matters is the population density in the main towns where most live, not the country as a whole.

No it isnt. Holland doesn?t do it that way and neither does Singapore and both are much higher density cities than London, let alone over the entire country.

[John_j]

Not a chance if they do manage to end up with a much better result than has been seen with spain, italy and the USA,

I doubt that too, particularly as no one who matters politically in the UK is demanding that the Torys don?t do what they claim is Excessive bureaucracy and nannying.

And it's becoming clear that what Sweden attempted isnt working in Stockholm. They are getting the worst result in Scandinavia.

Iceland may be able to get away with it by banning anyone from showing up in their country but that isnt feasible for the UK.

No chance.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa 2]

What about Bella-Rus?

I do wonder about the end game though. OK so we stop this spike to keep the nhs under control of patients. It may end up that no amount of care could save those destined to die. We do not know, nobody really does, but you cannot blame people for at least trying to make treatment possible.

New Zealand learned from everyone else and being late into the infection, more or less locked down completely, in about a week. At present only 1 death, but that may of course change. This is a massive experiment, but to me it seems obvious that in the end, every single person on the planet will be infected, but maybe more slowly as the majority get over it and act as a buffer. I don't see any way out. In the end a gradual easing will need to be achieved to control the spread which might run on into next year. However, will Joe Public stand for that for that long? I doubt it, so at some point a country will lift restrictions, and we shall see what occurs. Brian

[Steve Walker]

50 percent of those on ventilators are apparently dying. That suggests that if we can't keep the peak low enough and we run out of ventilators, up to 50% of those unable to be put on ventilators will die when they would otherwise have survived.

It may be a little better than that, as concentration on those most likely to survive may push the survival rate of those on ventilators up, but that will also mean some that were not expected to survive, but in reality would have (see the newspaper stories of very elderly or very ill patients doing so) will die instead.

SteveW

[Brian Reay]

Don?t forget, there are different types of ventilator.

The invasive type and the non-invasive type.

The former are used in the more serious cases.

The later are, in simple terms, mask based and just provide help.

A break down of the 50% number between the two types is needed - is it 50% of all, 50% of the invasive type, some other mix?

There is also a simple pipe, perhaps up/ by the nose, with oxygen. That isn?t normally counted as ventilation.