The New Petrol (E10)

Yes. And without the expense of burning the stuff all summer...

It's expensive.

OTOH, someone running a chainsaw professionally may well choose the pay the extra, rather than inhale the carcinogenic benzene fumes in the exhaust all workday. Also, I'd say anecdotally the engines run "better", i.e. more power and smoother.

Thomas Prufer

Go on, then. Just what in every carburettor gets dissolved by 10% alcohol?

And what magic materials are used in fuel injection so it becomes safe?

The most likely things by far to be attacked by the ethanol are the flexible parts of the fuel lines. But on a 20 year old car they are very likely dangerous anyway.

Would you run a car on 20 year old tyres?

Not necessarily every car, but a lot. It attacks solder, so affects floats; rubbers, so hoses and diaphragms; if it has absorbed enough moisture from the air, it becomes corrosive and can cause the brass jets corrode and become clogged.

Assuming that hoses, plastic pipes, o-ring seals, etc. are suitable (or that suitable replacements exist), which is likely due to injected systems mainly being newer, the remaining materials are likely to be aluminium, etc. and unaffected.

I say again. Most old cars will no longer be on their original hoses etc. If they are, should be changed for safety reasons anyway. Oh - plastic floats have been the norm for many a year. If you are running a very old car as a hobby, you'll be doing a tiny mileage. So using non ethanol fuel or an additive only a tiny fraction of the total costs. Just as you had to when leaded petrol stopped. You had to find ways round it. There are many quite poor countries where a much higher percentage of ethanol is the norm. And they still manage with older cars.

Most will have been. The replacements are generally not Ethanol resistant. Even most hose sold today isn't.

Much of what is sold as resistant to Ethanol is actually fake, with no real testing of resistance at all.

A huge number of older cars (even with modern replacement carburettors) have brass floats - and how do you get around the problems of diaphragms and jets being attacked, when alternatives are not available.

While it is not such a problem for hobby cars, around 5% of UK vehicles are unsuitable for 10% Ethanol - many owned and used daily by people who cannot afford to change them and cannot afford the extra costs of safe fuel.

Which is immaterial, we are talking about the 5% of vehicles affected in the UK and the solutions available here ... which in many cases consist of expensive work to replace vulnerable components (including one-off custom made fuel tanks in some cases) and/or ongoing costs of super-unleaded (currently around 15p per litre extra and which may itself disappear in the near future) or high cost additives.

So car makers for the past 20 years or so have been using ethanol safe hoses - but the aftermarket only supplies fakes?

Pray explain the difference between a petrol tank fitted to a modern car from one fitted 30 years ago?

How can ethanol attack METAL?

Aftermarket is unfortunately full of fakes. Local shops have often gone and people have to resort to internet ordering, where fakes are rife.

Not directly hose related, but I have ended up with fake HSS drills, fake aluminium "welding" rods, a fake thermostat and coolant sensor.

Lots of people have reported hose that has failed within 12 months, despite being marked as suitable for E10 and not yet having had anything more than E5 put through it.

Only today, I saw a video showing some very convincing fakes of NGK spark-plugs - the guy involved had confirmed with NGK that they were fake.

There is plenty out there and some of the fakers are extremely good at making it look right.

Two immediate differences stand out.

2) All have sealed systems (absorbing volatile vapours into carbon canisters and releasing them into the intake at the next startup) and are not vented to atmosphere (which leads to temperature cycles drawing water vapour in, which is absorbed into the Ethanol, making it corrosive).

It's hygroscopic, so can collect water, and it oxidises to acetic acit. QED.

In a sealed tank without oxygen?

The Natural Philosopher snipped-for-privacy@invalid.invalid wrote

It?s the water that is guaranteed to be in the ethanol that does that.

Its got water in it right from the start and the tanks at the servo aren't sealed.

A friend has a V-reg. Renault, nothing inside the fuel flap except 'unleaded' in several languages. It's 1.1 li, so not one of the 2 li ones up to about 2005 that can't take E10. Now Renaults are OK after 1998, but V is close and the car could have been made some time earlier than V and stored. Any ideas on how to find out for certain?

It is really quite difficult to get rid of oxygen, if you have actually had to do it.