The good old days, recycled ?? :-)

[Arfa Daily]

So, I have a bar of four MES R50 reflector spots here in the computer room, a cartload of 'em in the conservatory, and the two wall lights in the lounge that use them, as well. Since all of this lightbulb eco-bollox nonsense came in, it has not been possible to get them with a frosted front. They used to give a really nice even light. The clear ones are nothing like as good in this regard, projecting images of the filament, and uneven wodges of light onto the walls, as a result of the optically poor clear glass used.

Tonight, I was wandering through the local Tesco avoiding the zombies, when I spied boxes of R50s with a picture of a frosted type on them. So I stopped, and opened one up to have a look and Lo! - in the box was two frosted-front bulbs.

So what's going on here then ? Are they suddenly allowing the frosted type again ?

Arfa

[Brian Gaff]

What is wrong with the frosted type, I have no idea how this could be an issue.

Brian

[gogmagog]

I expect the frosting reduces the brightness, perhaps reflecting much of the light back inside. I've also had to resort to unfrosted ones. You eventually get used to the strange patterns on the walls (I don't even notice them now); and to me they seem much brighter.

[Arfa Daily]

Like much of this eco-bollox nonsense, I don't really know, either. I could never figure what the issue was with frosted envelopes on bulbs. I seem to recall reading somewhere that they used slightly more energy to produce, which is a laugh when you look at the energy budget for building and shipping those useless CFL things. Never-the-less, they were banned, and the only frosted alternatives in a 'regular' bulb shape that I can find these days, are the so-called 'energy saver' halogens where a capsule bulb is inside a regular-shaped envelope. Even these are now getting hard to find, the frosted glass being replaced with clear, which looks utterly ridiculous. When I was a kid, most bulbs were clear, and the light was often shadowy or watery. Then the frosted or pearl types became popular, and incandescent lighting reached its pinnacle, with the light being bright and even. Now we've taken a huge step backwards, both with reverting to clear glass bulbs, and trying to foist CFLs on everyone ...

Arfa

[Owain]

ITYM SES. MES is torch-bulb.

I replaced mine with SES CFLs which I got from Tesco for 10p each. The sticks poke out of the fitting, but 2 give ample light for my kitchen, which was rather gloomy with 4 spots.

Owain

[Andy Dingley]

Have you tried the flat-fronted CFLs sold for spots and desklamps? They're pretty good as worklights.

[Dave Liquorice]

Reduces the light output for a given power input.

I detest clear bulbs, they give far to harsh a light even inside a shade.

[Arfa Daily]

I haven't, no. I'll have a look at them if I remember (memory like a sieve these days ...) :-\

Arfa

[Arfa Daily]

Is it ? I was just thinking Miniature Edison Screw as opposed to ES or 'Standard' ES

But this is the thing. I hate to see the bloody things sticking out of the front of fittings. When I chose the lighting for various areas of my house, it was done with decorative design and aesthetics in mind, as much as providing light.

Arfa

[Dave Plowman (News)]

TLC do frosted halogen types. Not cheap, though. The higher efficiency of halogen seems they are still available while plain tungsten maybe not.

[Dave Liquorice]

ES - Edison Screw 27mm dia SES - Small Edison Screw 14mm dia MES - Minature Edison Screw 10mm dia

But it ain't that simple:

[Andrew Gabriel]

The hydroflouric acid etch frosting cost around 2% of the light output. However, due to H&S issues with hydroflouric acid handling, it effectively became unviable to use anymore a few years back, and the frosting of GLS lamps switched over to a dust coating, which was more costly in terms of light lost. (Acid etch may have still been used on some higher priced lamps such as R50, R80, etc.)

There was also the view that if you wanted the enlarged light source of a frosted lamp, you could damn well use a CFL instead, whereas there was no effective replacement where the more compact intense filament light source was required.

I expected someone to produce a spray-on frosting in the light of the new regs, but to date, I haven't seen one.

As for "recycled", as I commented in another thread, there are warehouses full of banned stockpiled lamps, which for the most part are now just junk, because there has been virtually no demand for them, and they cost more to store and distribute than they can be sold for. You might be seeing some of this stock making its way out - it does slowly, although generally not into the main supermarket outlets which voluntarily agreed not to sell them anymore.

[Andrew Gabriel]

In terms of total light output, ignore the equivalent filament rating on the box, and assume no better than a 2:1 ratio for small CFL reflector lamps. In some situations (particularly for general lighting where spotlamps are the wrong thing to be using), they can seem better than 2:1 due to the wider (flood) beam angle spilling light over a wider area.

[Dave Liquorice]

If Tesco can sell something make a profit (even if it's indirectly by increased footfall) and not actually break the law they will.

[John Rumm]

I have seen thin frosted "condoms" for clear GLS bulbs.

[SteveW]

I wonder what they use Hydrofluoric acid for these days? I'm currently working on the instrumentation for a plant that is recycling old industrial waste and will be exporting tanker loads of the stuff (70% v/v) for 10 to 20 years. They apparently have a ready market for it.

SteveW

[The Natural Philosopher]

Uranium hexafluoride?

I'm currently

[Arfa Daily]

I got a CPC "Bulk Bargains" mini catalogue in the post today, and bugger me, what's on the back page ? Light bulbs, that's what. And what's amongst those light bulbs ? Yep, Frosted R50 reflectors. 12p a pop in a quantity of 10, so I reckon I might just stock up with a fiver's worth whilst they're still on the market again ...

Arfa

[Andrew Gabriel]

It's still used for etching glass, but I suspect only for parts which cost more than a light bulb, where it has become unviable to include the H&S cost of handling.

If I was to guess further, I suspect the real reason for banning the frosted lamps was that EU manuafcturers couldn't make them as cheaply as Chinese manufacturers (who probably manage to use HF with much less H&S overhead and cost). The EU lighting industry has managed to convince the EU to ban things when the EU lighting industry could no longer manufacture them competitively, and saw it as a way of blocking their competitors and forcing EU customers towards the more expensive products which the EU manufacturers could still make.

[The Natural Philosopher]

This is essentially EU standard operating procedure. Find something that your product does or doesn't do that differentiates it from competiton, and then get the EU to make a universal law that means your cempetitors product cant actually be sold.

Drives up prices and temporarily increases profits until the chinese copy it anyway.

First happened with californian cars. Cat converters were made mandatory even though they don't work in cold climates till they are properly warmed up. And increase fuel consumption.