The future of DIY

Andy Dingley wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 16:22

This is one of my complaints with B&Q - small packs of sundry hardware cost a fortune. And yet, I can also buy 3m packs of coving for less than the builder's merchant next door, ditto plaster (OK, I just get fatigued by endless haggling so I go where the marked price is cheaper if I can).

Agree. Leave the lampshades and cushions and rugs to Homebase (who are invariably nearby anyway). More space for proper goods then.

Self scan would be good if it worked like Tescos (ie worked). It is potentially a winner if I don't have to stand in a queue just to buy 2 things. Alternatively, poach ALDI's till staff - they are at least 3 times faster than B&Q's.

Reply to
Tim W
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Jules wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 17:21

Comfy seats and free tea and a TV for the ladies? Not as sexist as it seems, but I wish the larger womens clothing departments would provide exactly this near the changing rooms, so I'm sure the reverse may be true on some occasions!

An extension of the "website that works" I mentioned (seems to be an anathema to B&Q) - just need a few web kiosks dotted about then, no real extra effort after the website's running properly.

Funny - they're never to be seen if you do want one.

Mine's not bad, but the prices are hardly to die for (except of shock).

Reply to
Tim W

Product range in 2-3 grades only.

- Pro - Good - Disposable

- Screwdrivers from CK, Stanley & cheap clone

- Not a store sprawling in screwdrivers

Product range based on solutions.

- Marmox in various thicknesses

- Kingspan/Celotex in various thicknesses and half-sheets

- Prices to match the best online without 10-min order & =A320 delivery

More cable options.

- BS7211 1.5mm for lighting re insulation level (50m & 100m)

- BS8436 1.5mm & 2.5mm (50m & 100m)

- If you extend a non-RCD circuit you a) need to add a RCD spur or b) use BS8436 cable yet sod all places carry it

- If you want a circuit without RCD protection for freezer, boiler, storage heaters, alarm you need BS8436 cable yet sod all places carry it

PVC coated copper pipe.

- I suspect water regs require pipe buried to be PVC coated

- Whatever, many houses use clinker block which in 20yrs trashes copper pipe (ask me how I know)

Less product breadth, more best of breed in quantity.

- Get rid of tower oval crap, it compresses if you look at it, stock MK Egatube oval & conduit

- Cable by the metre is now viable because you have electronic weighing scales - it's now possible!!

- Get rid of "every kind of tape except the good stuff", Asda duck masking tape was good, now rubbish and falls off everything. Stock a few good products vs a wall of every solution except the right one

Supermarkets have woken up to a smaller range, in quantity, at better prices. Screwfix do carry decent stuff - but even their range is actually quite limited.

Monitor the group for a list of all DIY jobs. Then ask Pro's how to do them, since many DIY stores employ such after they are physical wrecks(!). Then stock parts to achieve it, rather than a lot of tat which sits there forever.

It might be worth breaking the bigger stores down into "sub- companies". Why have wandering idiots when the electrical area could be a counter like screwfix manned by 1-2 people and back-end onto the warehouse carrying *everything*, like an electrical factor. Basically ElecCentre, PlumbCentre, TileCentre, ConstructionCentre. Disintermediate out the specialist factors. Why do I see a warehouse on the back of B&Q warehouses? It should be done as "multiple factors under one roof" and get the economy of scale and footfall in one place that used to trudge to CEF, N&E, Edmonson, Screwfix - only to find they have 1 screw, not that bit, wrong make of that bit, that bit is special order, that bit will be 3 days, that bit will be 2 days.

Reply to
js.b1

The McCanns got away with it. :-(

Reply to
Bruce

And we can mash them into the car park with our white vans and 4x4's :-)

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Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Interesting. HD's my local 'big' DIY store these days, and it's true they do some things well - but I've found plenty of staff there who have no clue about anything, and their prices are typically quite a bit higher than the farm supply place just down the road, and the quality generally a little lower (HD's lumber often isn't up to much, and I quite often see things on the shelves that have been trashed in transit but put out anyway).

cheers

Jules

Reply to
Jules

Couldn't get anything of the sort in B&Q or Wickes the other week. Most just looked blank; one older lady at B&Q knew what I wanted but said the nearest thing they had was plain expanded polystyrene.

Given the current fetish for insulation ("energy saving") I find this surprising.

Pete

Reply to
Pete Verdon

Announcements.

If I wanted to shop in an airport I would shop in an airport.

I want to strangle somebody every time Homebase broadcast their automated "if you want assistance ask a member of staff or, alternatively, operate a help point". Or and alternatively are tautologous.

If they need to call staff to checkouts etc they should have pagers. Preferably silent ones.

Blister packs. Everything's in blister packs.

Silly prices. If Ikea can produce a roomful of furniture for =A320 don't expect me to pay that for one shelf made out of beech-coloured cardboard with a ding in it.

Up and down aisles. Unlike supermarkets where you probably need something from most aisles and the most efficient way is to go up and down each aisle in turn, you probably only want a few particular aisles for a DIY project (if the stock is sensibly arranged) so a spoke arrangement would be better, with comfy seating area and enquiry desk in the hub.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

js.b1 wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 18:01

Agreed. I'd like to see that with power tools. I think they could do worse than just go with Blue Bosch, Green Bosch and random-crap brand. Green's perfectly decent for DIY, IME Blue is tough enough for pro-DIY and if you're really picky, you'll buy exactly the make and model you want from a specialist or off the web anyway. I have trouble placing Makita/Metabo/Green/Blue Bosch/DeWalt in any sort of pecking order (other than Green Bosch is probably the base) - keep it simple, it's a general store... Or arrange the tools uniformly into "Pro", "DIY" and "Value" and label the areas as such.

They've (T Wells) have really cracked this WRT Ply and other related sheet materials. There's a whole section of precut sheet materials in small sections. And the instore whole-sheet cutting service is good.

As you say, if they could extrapolate to other materials. I think wickes do some cut down Celotex - but the problem is it really is Celotex at Celotex prices (ie stupid). 44 quid a full sheet for 50mm(!). Even being able to buy

1ft and 2ft-square of PB would be useful for patching jobs.

And sell vapour barrier PB - there are enough places in a typical house that need it.

More info on the IEE regs too. I'm pleased to see, after all the Part P nonsense, that example wiring boards (or equivalent diagrams) are coming back. But some summary leaflets describing when you want an RCD, fan isolator and stuff like that. And sell some electrical guide books, including the OnSite (that's easy enough to follow for the average intelligent person). I lent mine to one of the mums at nursery so she could check if the sparkies who were coming to quote for work were talking rubbish or not. as it happened one was a panic merchant who wanted to strip the house out, and the other was far more pragmatic and suggested some remedial work that wasn't much different to what I'd concluded (although I'd only had a cursory look).

Like Ubuntu Linux - why install 25 email readers, when 21 are utter crap and/or minority interest.

Yes!

They've always sold chain by the metre anyway. And rope.

And, those product search terminals/kiosks - have a product suggestion, eg "I want aquapanel". At least all the things they don't sell can be more readily profiled. I'm damn sure that when I whine at the lad, none of it ever gets back to a manager who can get more lines on the shelves.

Good idea. They can have display boards showing one example of *everything* (down to the last cable clip and section of wire, boards are 2D - use the height, and wrap them around the waiting area). Put numbers on each item. Then punters ask for 2 number-502s, 5 number-223s etc. It would also avoid the plonkers putting stuff back in the wrong place but still allow unhindered touch-feely browsing (which is what I like about B&Q over the wholesalers).

Repeat for the areas you suggest. Leave the tools, gardening, misc boxed items and lighting out in normal shop format with the trade counters arranged along the rear (next to the warehouse).

Reply to
Tim W

Pete Verdon wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 19:24

Celotex is readily available round here. You just wouldn't actually buy it at those silly prices.

But they could get rid of that awful looking recycled plastic wool (looks like afire hazard, even if it is doused in chemicals) and start selling sheeps wool insulation (why doesn't anyone?).

Reply to
Tim W

Excuse the resident charm donors!

Its an interesting question, and this is a reasonable place to ask it. Others have already noted that getting your answer probably involves reading the group for an extended time to gain a better perspective.

However you may find there are almost as many answers as there are people. DIYers as a breed cover such a wide spectrum, its unlikely we will ever be adequately catered for by any one shop. Recognising and dealing with that may be a way forward.

If I am doing a big DIY project, then taking trips out to buy stuff eats into the available time. Being able to shop from home in the evenings etc makes the task much simpler. Screwfix & Toolstation have brought massive improvements in productivity for DIYers in the way they allow quick and easy ordering of lots of "stuff" that is otherwise slow to find and buy in traditional DIY shops. If their "trade" counters were backed with more local stock they would be even better.

What would I like to do that I can't have now:

The same sort of online ordering for basic building materials, for delivery by a certain time, at a place of my choice would be great. An online builders merchant if you like - but without the queuing up at the counter, daft headline prices one needs to haggle down etc.

A place to buy a decent selection of timber, where the softwood in not all banana shaped, and the selection of hardwood runs to more than a token offering of one or two planks of some unknown species of "hardwood". I would love to plan a furniture construction project and be able to click though a wood equivalent of screwfix - ordering up some unfinshed oak boards, or some furniture board, or some planks of cherry etc. Being able to order boards and sheet materials, and at the same time being able to specify a cutting list, knowing that should I need to save time I can have stuff delivered, or ready for collection, pre-cut etc.

Reply to
John Rumm

It is annoying when you just "want 1 more sheet". Screwfix list one insulated tile board in a circa =A3120 pack, but it is not Marmox, very thin, very expensive.

Expanded is not waterproof, but is often used in window reveals (gripfill to wall, onecoat plaster perhaps with PVA directly as it keys into the voids in the surface).

It is strange. It would be an ideal place to discount wall insulation aimed at Hard-To-Heat-Houses (HTHH) & generally. Perhaps it will happen once we hit a critical mass of housing having 200mm+ loft insulation. B&Q did carry 50mm sheets of Extruded Polystyrene insulation cheaply (=A320), but that is not really the same (pracitcal price tho).

A very large number (millions) of houses are at least 20% solid wall, when it hit -13oC even an uninsulated cavity wall actually "bit" as you walked past it with a fleece on. If we ever got a week of that the frozen pipe problem would be huge (hot water only gets drawn periodically unlike hotels which continually circulate as a ring).

Reply to
js.b1

Owain wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 19:48

"If IKEA did DIY"

I wonder...

But would you buy a power tool called a "Yørgalwånk"...

Reply to
Tim W

LoL! - but you might stay to watch the in-store demo!

Reply to
John Rumm

I have no wish to be excused by you or anyone else.

You might be flattered to be asked to take part in a thoroughly bad survey being conducted by a lazy idiot who hasn't the faintest idea what he is doing. I am not in the least flattered, which is why my response was strongly negative.

Proper market research can take many forms, but it never takes the form of asking ill-informed and badly prepared questions on a forum whose purpose, content membership the OP patently does not understand.

The OP's inept approach will only produce misleading conclusions, to the detriment of the recommendations that will go forward to the OP's client. For that reason, it just isn't worth responding.

Reply to
Bruce

yup, but you cant cover a wide range with paper. And cant do calculations for people, or show the slide shows

No-one's gonna move in 24/7, & 2 PCs are very cheap now.

Yeah. People more liekly to make a beeline for a particular store if they have a few tables outside, tea available and PCs that explain all the projects and show the funky things one can do

It does all cost money to make the computer presentations, that's the rub, but could really attract business and is spread over many stores.

NT

Reply to
NT

John Rumm wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 20:30

Yes. Parkers of Sussex has done it - they do have a comprehensive website with not-as-bloody-stupid-as-TP prices, but still expensive for many things that B&Q sell. Not nationwide. But a step in the right direction. They'll match B&Q prices, but you have to go and see them, so back to square one...

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Oh yes - Timber Merchants - the last of the pre-Internet era vendors...

Reply to
Tim W

John Rumm wibbled on Thursday 14 January 2010 20:45

If she's as Swedish as the books on their shelves, maybe ;->

I'm sure those product names don't mean anything. They just get some 6 month old to mumble stuff and and pepper a few å and ø's around to make it look authentic.

Reply to
Tim W

Alas the B&Q el cheapos aren't that cheap and are dire. The McAllister aren't much better.

Price in my local 'uge' B&Q is higher than my timber merchants who also have a cutting facility. The B&Q cutting service involves half an hours wait to find the blind innumerate droid who has been trained to bugger up any possible cut.

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

Went to IKEA last week. They now sell a 12v driver for £12. Don't racall the name :-)

Reply to
The Medway Handyman

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