testing household elec items

[whisky-dave]

good point unless those 'in need' are the local euthanasia club. ;-)

[whisky-dave]

ensure (as far as reasonably practicable, in accordance with the guidelines ) that it is safe to test without harming the person doing the testing.

I don;t think that is true and deosn;t make any sense anyway. The reason for PAT testing nis to make sure something is safe to use. The poerson that uses a PAT tested must be qualified to use it and knnow wh at they are doing. If you want something tested you may have no idea whethe r it will pass or fail or be really dangerous, that is what the PAT machine and the person doing the test is meant to find out, NOT the person that wa nts the applience checked.

[tabbypurr]

I take it you don't know what a PAT test consists of

NT

[RJH]

I don't think so - I made a casual comment about what's to go wrong when I bought a hifi turntable recently, and he made the point that they don't test if they work, just that they're safe.

In the case of the turntable, the platter doesn't spin (idler wheel doesn't engage, not got round to looking at it yet) - so would have failed the most basic test! Don't have the heart to take it back.

[mm0fmf]

Portable Appliance Test test?

[charles]

Sadly, to a great many people the test consists of pluging the appliance into the test box and getting a red or green light,

[tabbypurr]

Those must be confused if they get a red and a green.

NT

[Steve Walker]

It's one of those odd ones. Just saying, "I need to do a PAT," sounds silly and "PA test" sounds like you're going to do a sound check.

SteveW

[Andrew Gabriel]

No, but it often makes sense to do that too, depending on the reason for the test (e.g. periodic, or once off after repair or prior to putting on the market, etc).

[Andrew Gabriel]

Interlocks and other safety features are part of a PAT test, as is suitability of the piece of equipment for the purpose it's being used (e.g. a hot air paint stripper with nothing wrong with it would be a fail if it was provided to dry hair) but a functional test isn't strictly part of a PAT test - the appliance doesn't actually need to work - it just needs to be safe.

Generally speaking, a functional test will require different tools/test equipment and more specific knowledge of the appliance.

[Andrew Gabriel]

You need the two C&G 2377 certificates, which are specifically intended to be accessible to non-electricians (e.g. in most offices, you will find someone who knows ohms law, the difference between milliohms and megohms, and how to wire a plug, which is pretty much what's required as a prerequisite). The course and exam are usually taught over two days, one exam at the end of each day. Anyone in this newsgroup is likely to find it a doddle.

Secondly, you need a PAT tester and it will need periodic calibration.

Finally, you need insurance cover.

The last two items can be covered by the charity shop if they have enough throughput to justify doing electrical appliances, purchase a tester, and check with their insurer for cover, which shouldn't be a problem if the person doing the test has the C&G 2377 certificates.

I have put together some notes here for Repair Cafes (which is a similer use case):

I occasionally do PAT training for Repair Cafe volunteers. Unfortunately, my presentation material contains copyright information which I only got permission to use in my training sessions. The Restart Project was looking to get permission from the copyright holder to make it public, but I didn't hear any more about that so maybe they failed or didn't get around to it.

[whisky-dave]

I was looking at freegle and someone was offering an item that wasnlt working TV/monitor of similar and stated that it might just need a soldering iron to fix it. I'm not sure if free things need to be PAT tested. But one of the reasons we don't let people borrow equipemnt outside the lab is electrical safety evenm if they have been PAT tested.

[whisky-dave]

So what is so wring in that.

or are yuo saying that there is only one type of PAT tester that can be brought or that they all do the ssame .

above is a list of products depending on what needs testing and that's just one 'make'

[John Rumm]

The problem is the bit of the test you do before you even reach for the test equipment, will find the vast majority of your failures. So if you rely only on the machine, you will pass lots of dangerous stuff.

[Andrew Gabriel]

When you see someone starting off by reaching for the PAT tester, it's a sure sign they haven't got a clue what they're doing.

[tabbypurr]

Yup. Most of the PAT test does not involve the insulation/earth test.

NT

[Thomas Prufer]

I was asked the following question, by someone who has the testing gear and the certificate and course to use it. He inspected and tested a hair straightening iron (resistive heater, knob thermostat -- so an unusual waveform is unlikely, it's probably a on-off bimetal control).

Visually all is in order, the unit gets hot but not smoking hot, the thermostat cycles as expected. Tester shows "all lights green".

However: set to the highest temperature of 180°C, the tester shows an electrical load of 400 Watts. The device is marked "Max. 40W".

Pass or fail?

(Mind, this is strictly speaking VDE0700/0701, not PAT.) First, I thought he did a good job and used his head and eyes.

Second, I think "Max. 40W" means the maximum is 40 Watts, and cannot ever mean "400 Watts and a duty cycle of 10%" -- not with a bang-bang bimetal thermostat cycling in minutes.

Still, I don't know the correct answer: the device is out of spec, as listed on the device itself, on the plate with the Class marking, the CE symbol, etc.

However, googling for similar devices, 400 W is a reasonable value, 40 W seems very low. So it may be a typo on the rating.

Thomas Prufer

[spuorgelgoog]

AIUI under European product safety regulations the rating plate is required to be both present and accurate. If there is a typo on the rating plate th at would be a fail (if the product was offered for resale). If for use in a hair salon possibly not a fail as the actual load can be recorded in the a ppliance records and checked again at the next test.

For electrical machines testing to EN 60204 would be required in addition t o VDE 0700/0701 under Betriebssicherheitsverordnung?

Owain

[charles]

But, not all PAT machines measure load. (mine does)

[whisky-dave]

That would depend on what you're testing and to what extent they are being tested.

I wouldn't, my cat probbaly would but then my cat has never used a PAT testing machine and most such machines have some sort of intructions you must follow. Now whether or not you call a visual check as a test I'm not sure I don't, I'd call it a check rather than a test.