Tell Paliament what you think of Part P schemes

[Phil]

Vid:

Consult:

[Harry Bloomfield]

Phil pretended :

Dr Robert Judson's paper spells it out rather well!

[dennis]

Consult:

I don't think so. Just because I am not an electrician doesn't mean I don't know how to do wiring. Household wiring is as the man says really simple and you shouldn't be forced to use an electrician that probably knows less.

Next someone will suggest that you have to use a plumber to fit CH, even though most of them struggle with a system with more than two zones and "forget" to tighten some of the fittings.

[Tim Watts]

On Thursday 24 October 2013 13:47 dennis@home wrote in uk.d-i-y:

1/2" thick of A4-ish paper in the Wiring Regs suggests it is not "really simple".

However, neither it is that hard in a typical domestic case, providing you make the effort to check out what you are proposing to do before doing it...

But proceeding with blind ignorance that even a "simple" situation might carry a "gotcha" would be foolish...

A qualified and competant sparky has the advantage that he has been through the regs completely and has already dealt with most common scenarios.

A DIYer can do as good a job, or better, but must allow for doing some not totally trivial homework before commencing, for all but the simplest of jobs.

[Nightjar]

On 24/10/2013 14:00, Tim Watts wrote: ...

Like using chocolate block connectors on the bits he thought I wouldn't look at?

Colin Bignell

[newshound]

Obviously were not sufficiently inaccessible!

[Fredxx]

No, but it easy to pass the relevant exam. Yet that isn't sufficient.

BTW, at any time only a small fraction of your "rule book" is relevant to domestic wiring.

[chris French]

The ones we had one use were :-)

New conservatory about 3 years ago. Electrician (contracted by the conservatory company) comes to wire up the automatic vent openers and an extractor fan. Some of the cabling runs along inside a basically boxed in bit that is now pretty inaccessible as it is screwed in and the screw heads covered in plugs and painted.

He used choc blocks, wrapped in insulation tape to make connections in there

[Harry Bloomfield]

There is much more to it, than just being just able to make it function. I was quite cabable of making it function at 14.

[Tim Watts]

On Thursday 24 October 2013 18:21 Fredxx wrote in uk.d-i-y:

This is the "$10000 to hit the equipment" scanario - yes, but it's knowing

*which bits are relevant" :)

[Dave Liquorice]

At least you had a choc block... One of the florescent light fittings here had the wires twisted togther, shoved into a red plastic wall plug and wrapped in tape.

[dennis]

Perhaps you want to say what bits are difficult. Other than having to watch the professional to ensure he gets it right. (Yes I did have to tell the heating engineer how to correctly wire a boiler. So it actually worked correctly.)

[dennis]

A late starter.

[Tim Watts]

On Thursday 24 October 2013 19:50 dennis@home wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Depends what you are doing.

If replacing an accessory, then basic workmanship and knowing to sleeve the earth wire and ensure the backbox is earthed via either a flylead or a fixed lug and metal screw.

Not hard, but still possible to bugger up with gross uselessness. Unlikely to be easy to bugger up enough to be dangerous whilst still working (which is most people's measure of a "good job".

New circuit or seriously extending an existing circuit:

Knowing the limits for loop impedance to suit the protective device; Knowing how to estimate the above for a given cable run and ideally test it; Knowledge of acceptible cable routes; Correct cable sizing for current and volt drop (as well as loop impedance) Checking the main earth bonding and lots more

External circuits: All of the above; Choice of suitable cable and installation methods; Earthing considerations;

Bathroom/Special locations...

That's quite a lot and whilst in most cases, a bog standard install (eg 32A ing on a Type B MCB with RCD protection using 2.5mm2 T+E will be OK, *do you know that is the case for sure*?

Given the insane amounts of insulation stuffed into lofts these days, I would that making assumptions would be poor form.

[dennis]

Nothing difficult so far.

So nothing difficult in domestic wiring then.

Unless you add in some lightwaveRF relays or one of the other control systems.

[Tim Watts]

On Thursday 24 October 2013 20:14 dennis@home wrote in uk.d-i-y:

11kW shower: The cable will be run chased into plaster walls, clipped to a joist in the loft under 250mm insulation then down the inside of a studwall packed with insulation.

The total run length is 18m.

What size cable and what size/type circuit protection is required?

[dennis]

Well the first thing to ask is why would you want to run it under 250mm loft insulation?

It doesn't make sense to hide it in the loft at the expense of derating it by 50%. If it was already there and you added the insulation it probably would have been done to the minimum and wouldn't have the spare capacity to be covered in 250mm insulation especially as its probably got insulation under it already as 11kw showers weren't common in the days before lofts were insulated so 11kw circuits weren't installed.

[Nightjar]

I may have failed to mention my plans to re-lay the floors after the trades had been in.

Colin Bignell

[Matty F]

Aha that's a thought. How else do I connect a flexible lead from my generator to the 2.5 T&E that I just installed from my garage to the house?

[Tim Watts]

On Thursday 24 October 2013 21:39 dennis@home wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Please answer the question and stop squirming.

You were the one that said it was "easy".