Telephone problem

BT line with phone and broadband.
Broadband is working OK and that has its own socket on the master socket.
I can only get the phone working if I plug directly into the socket behind the face plate on the master socket. If I plug into the socket on the faceplate, I don't get anything at all. BT have suggested that the micro filter on the faceplate has failed, but I've replaced that with a new one, and that doesn't work either.
Any suggestions on where to start looking next ?
Thanks
Adrian
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Adrian wrote:

tempted to agree with them so far, be wary of calling them out as they'd be likely to charge in this situation.

Any other extension wiring?

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That is the next thing to check: if there are wires attached to the faceplate, going to a second cable to other parts of the house, they may be suspect. Unplug everything from phone sockets (if any) elsewhere in the house and see if the problem still exists.
However if even a standalone filter (ie not the one on the faceplate) causes the same problem, then it looks as if it's extension wiring.
When you press the green telephone "off hook" button, do you get any sound at all (eg a click)? What about if you take the phone off hook and then plug/unplug the lead into the filter (standalone or faceplate)?
What tone does another phone (eg mobile) get if it tries to ring the landline when it's not working?
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That was my thinking too..

Yes, there are a number of other phone sockets around the house, none of which currently have phones plugged into them.
I'm not ruling out a wiring fault, but it seems odd that it has died when there hasn't been any obvious change to the system. The last time it was disturbed was in late 2012 when I changed from ADSL to FTTC.
Adrian
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On 10/05/2018 11:59, Adrian wrote:

Can you confirm there are no external wires into the faceplate?
I might be tempted to get a new faceplate and try it myself, saving the hassle and risk of an engineer attending.
It's possible a pin has been damaged/bent/out of place.
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Adrian explained :

Any extension wiring you have, will be connected when the faceplate is plugged in, so that wiring comes under suspicion when it works directly, but not via the faceplate. That was the whole idea of the unpluggable faceplate, to be able to isolate the extension wiring easily by the customer.
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Thanks.
I've just removed the extension wiring from the faceplate, and I can now get the faceplate working (unfortunately, its location doesn't lend itself to leaving a phone plugged in). Tracing that through is not going to be fun.
Adrian
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Adrian wrote:
[snip]

OK so the fault is with the extension wiring.
How many extension sockets are there?
If more than one, the wiring may go from one to the next, in a daisy chain, or there may be multiple wires joined at one or more extension sockets. You will have to inspect them all, and make a sketch to show how they are connected.
It then ought to be possible to isolate each cable, and reconnect them one by one starting from the wiring that you disconnected from the faceplate filter.
It would be worth making a simple tester with a battery and a lamp, so that you can check each pair. If there's a convenient earth point available you can check one wire at a time.
Be aware that the punchdown connectors very rarely accept more than one wire reliably. Two wires will sometimes work, but where I have seen three punched down together the last will usually fall out.
If you can prove a break along the length of a cable then you may have a problem with mice or rats eating the PVC insulation and chewing through the copper conductor.
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Graham J



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writes

4 extension sockets in all, and they are daisy chained.

Thanks for the warning.

The leg between extension 2 and 3 is under the floor, so if there is a rodent issue, that's likely where it is, but it is ~10 years since there was last any sign of a rodent visiting.
Thanks
Adrian
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Further sockets in the house are daisy chained. Disconnect them one at a time starting with the nearest one, and test again. Unless a cable has been damaged (so likely exposed so easy to see) it's most likely a problem inside one of the other outlets.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk says...

Better still, if there are a lot of them, disconnect the last half. If the fault disappears, Check again half way between there and the end, if it doesn't, go back halfway to the beginning. Repeat as required.
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Terry

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Yup. Lots of ways. But you can guarantee it will be the last one you go to which has the fault.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 5/11/2018 7:06 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

:)
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snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk says...

Why would you carry on fault finding after you'd fixed the faulty one?
Lets say you have 12 sockets/units/whatever, say, in a line and the last one is faulty. If you start at the beginning and work your way along the line you will check all 12 before finding the fault.
If, instead, you start at the 6th position and disconnect the output, if the fault disappears, you've eliminated the first 6. Now go to the 9th and do the same. With only two checks you've eliminated 9.
Now go to the 11th and disconect the output. The fault still clears so the fault must be at the 12th one or the feed to it.
That's four checks instead of twelve.
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Terry

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"Terry Casey" wrote in message wrote:

Why would you carry on fault finding after you'd fixed the faulty one?
Remorons like Dave The Benefits scrounger , can't think it's the low education and lack of brain capacity.
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On Sat, 12 May 2018 20:23:14 +0100, pamela wrote:

That's what he said. It will be the last one you go to.
The same as finding something in the last place you look.
You fell for it - admit it.
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Whoosh.

Are you referring to me? Surely not the Pamela we know and love. ;-)
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 10/05/2018 11:59, Adrian wrote:

Do you mean you have replaced the frontplate or that you have plugged a "dongle" type microfilter in ?
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Replaced the faceplate. No dongle type microfilters are in use here.
Adrian
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Robert wrote:

It might help us to know the exact type of master socket and filter. For example is it the modern "Type 5C" as shown on:
https://www.telecomgreen.co.uk/engineering/bt-openreach-new-nte5c-master-socket-guided-tour/
see also:
http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/40812/~/what-type-of-master-socket-have-i-got%3F
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Graham J






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