Telephone issues - partly on topic

On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 21:48:41 +0100, Toby wrote:

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Think the OP has a BT Retail line but yes BT Openreach have to fix it (for no charge) as the line is already provided. You don't get much (aka any) say in how the service is provided, if BT decided it was cheaper for them to put in FTTP and conversion kit to POTS that is what they would do. Asking for a certain pole or chamber will require your to pay for any extra works...
Once a line has been provided BT Openreach are contractually obliged to fix it within the terms of the contract and your service level. If that fix requires them to open up two miles of trench, relay ducts, pull in new cable then that is what they will do and no charge to you. They might not make the within four working days for a residential line target if they had to do that though. B-)


Worth a few tests like that just to ensure that the crackles are within the BT network, if they come out and the fault is with your wiring or equipment there is a £99 charge...

th

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Just done that myself, ported a couple of BT numbers to Sipgate. Works well with a Gigaset N300 PSTN/VoIP/DECT unit. As we have no choice of telecoms provider I've also added "Total Care" to the residential POTS line that brings in the ADSL. Total Care means that they aim to fix faults within 24 hrs of the report (fix is within working hours, something like 0800 to 1800 365 days/year). Worked last week about 10 days after applying Total Care, reported fault just before 1700 Thursday, fixed about 1100 Friday. B-) A side effect of Total Care seems to be that you can't report faults online, you have to speak to Bangalore. Total Care on a residential line costs £4.00/month.

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Sipgate are free in that there is no regular monthly fee for the service, calls are still chargeable... But considerably less than BT, the *minimum* charge for a daytime call landline to landline via BT is 23p.

I considered that but decided that I'd rather support Sipgate properly by using them for calls. Their web interface, options and voicemail (notification by (chargeable) SMS, email with/without the recording attached) on the "free" service is very good.
You can access voicemail via the web as well and I think set (chargeable) diverts but you need internet access to do that. So if your net connection is down... Of course you could use a smartphone just to set the diverts.
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On 2013-06-23 21:57:13 +0000, Dave Liquorice said:

I've gota BT Business contract - the fault has been traced (about 3 weeks ago) to an underground part of the line that has now been built or paved over in a gated mews. So far, BT Business/Openreach have not found anyone to approach to get permission to dig it up, and I fear this could either take months or be abandoned.

Just looking at Sipgates's site now.
E.
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On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 23:18:10 +0100, eastender wrote:

Can you show "loss of earnings/business" if so BT will compensate. If you've taken the option to divert calls to another number I think the loss aspect will have gone out of the window but you ought to be able to press for not paying or getting a refund of the rental whilst the problem is on going.
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On 2013-06-23 21:57:13 +0000, Dave Liquorice said:

There's no price advantage though in using voip when compared with low cost landline operators such as ICUK - the calls are almost the same, and ICUK also has no fees (no call set up, per second billing, and no contract). Of course there is the line rental but you have to pay an ISP with voip.
On balance, I'd rather make a circuit-switched call for business critical calls which is why I'd like to get my landline fixed.
E.
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On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 23:46:59 +0100, eastender wrote:

Agreed, with with VoIP you can choose to take landline calls when you are elsewhere - either on a mobile phone via IP, or on (say) your laptop.
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Yes but much less rental;)...

Been in VoIP for bizz calls for ages and its been fine. What do you think happens to your call when it gets to the exchange carries on over copper;?..
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On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:41:03 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

On BT it depends a bit of your exchnage ATM it may go over IP or it may go over ATM. BT are in mid switch over from an ATM based network to IP based.
Donno if the IP based solution will emulate a circuit switched network by guaranteeing that once a connection has been established you will have the "circuit" barring a failure of kit/fibre WHY within BTs network.
VoIP over the public internet the quality/reliabilty of the "circuit" is down to the varigies of the public internet which was never built to deal with "real time" applications. Packets are not guaranteed to arrive in the order they where sent or even arrive at all...
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Can't say I've had a problem at all Dave mind you our BB is very good here over co-ax rather then the damp string stuff hence the recommendation to the OP to dump BT and use his VM BB for the phones..
Can always use a mobile for back up not that I've needed to;)..
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On 24/06/13 17:54, Dave Liquorice wrote:

Yawn. On the other hand those of us that have USED VOIP over the internet find it is by and large better quality and cleaner than a land line.
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On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:23:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

"circuit"

built

to

I've also used VoIP over the public internet and have also found it better "quality" than analogue, mainly due to level. 3 miles of copper takes it toll on analogue... It also seems to have wider bandwidth than the ISDN as well, the ISDN is of course fine for level.
With the public internet the link is not under control of just one or two carriers but many and varied ones. These days with massive connecetivity common place (hundreds of Gbps or even Tera bps) delays, lost packets etc are much less of a problem.
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VOIP can go over all sorts of routes, and you don't get any control.
For example, 18185 on the PSTN (which sometimes goes to VOIP, routes outside the UK and comes back again) has been having call quality issues recently - sometimes it's echo-y and barely usable.
Meanwhile calling various UK and international destinations using Voipgain has been producing unusable calls full of echo, one-way calls, breakup etc etc. PSTN 0871 dialthroughs (roughly the same price) to the same places are fine.
If you're calling the UK you might be OK, because people would scream. But many destinations aren't actually tested (ever called anyone on Ascension Island?), and the VOIP trunk can compress them to death so when it comes to use them they don't actually work.
You'd think this is because I'm using cheap VOIP carriers. But even primary landline telcos do this - eg I can't fax to one place because it's being VOIP-ised somewhere along the line. Prefix with 1280 (route over BT) and it's fine.
Only BT circuit-switched all the way has a guarantee of not being mangled. But it costs.
ICUK looks interesting... especially if they don't mess about with compression.
Theo
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Well does that matter?. Do we know what routing BT or Energis Virgin et al might take?..

We use VoIPfone and over the last year and a half now I've had one duff call which sounded like mobile break up and that was in Cambridge. In fact I didn't know for certain if the person who was calling was on a mobile or not.
Calls to France and the USA are excellent, sound like just down the road;!)...

Yes, they do know how to charge...

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On Sunday, June 23, 2013 6:44:39 PM UTC+1, eastender wrote:


Bull. Sorry but it is, if a telecoms company cant sort out the problems you describe they'd have gone out of business in year 1.



its straightforward. A filter might be needed, other than that just disconn ect and connect.

I'm not familiar with icuk. From using 3rd party international call compani es I do know that the access codes they use are free on BT, and pricey on v irgin. Virgin dont like people using other cheaper companies.

¿½


Check your T&Cs. Like any service, if its not provided then in principle yo u can withhold payment indefinitely if they fail to provide an adequate ser vice. The T&Cs will modify this, but only to a limited degree, they cant gi ve you an unusable line and still expect 18 months of payment.
Also do make sure its not in your wiring or phone.
NT
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No filter as virgin broadband is on a different bit of wire, its coaxial normally. The virgin guy simply lifted out the bt wires and crimped in his own. Brian
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I'd be tempted to get more hands on with BT, you need to be a broken record till they fix it to shut you up. However I don't know about virgin, though their phone is fine, their international rates are daylight robbery. Try a voip phone for outgoing calls. Brian
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On Monday, June 24, 2013 9:48:51 AM UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:

h

Their conference call rates are crazy, something like £14 an hour. On a B T line we paid either nothing or 50p, can't remember which. The main upside of virgin is the broadband, which beats anything offered via the old BT wi ring by a long way.
NT
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On 2013-06-24 09:17:14 +0000, snipped-for-privacy@care2.com said:

They do have capacity and outage problems as I know to my cost. Plus someone stole all the doors to the cabinets round our way last year.
The big issue - which came up a couple of years ago - is whether Ofcom will force Virgin to share its ducting. Until this happens we will carry on with anticompetitive practices that stifle high speed broadband and other services to premises. BT looks like an idiot having to deploy Infinity over old copper in cabled areas.
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Since we started using cable BB in 1995 its been down around 3 times once their fault twice good old Padrig and his digger was the cause..

Yes the Pikey's are renowned for nicking phone lies and there not bothered which Telco owns the cable!...

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snipped-for-privacy@care2.com scribeth thus

That it does .. thats the one thing they do very well:)..
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snipped-for-privacy@care2.com wrote:

Virgin work on the cheap/haggle-able line rental, expensive calls model:
3 Mobile: up to 32p/min 0844/0871: significant markup over BT Cuba: up to £1.30/min 1xxx(x) prefixes: not available Inclusive call packages: not great value CPS/changing calls provider: not available
Essentially the only way you'll win having a Virgin line: You only use it to receive calls You only use it with a dialthrough provider with 080 free access number You only use it rarely (eg fax line, alarm system, etc) If you need the PSTN and VOIP won't do
Theo
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