Talk the torque.

My AEG SDS has plenty of torque and a middling speed. Even then it doesn't have quite as much torque as another (older) hammer drill, or _anything_like_ the torque of my real slow-speed drill (a Wickes Kress) used for big augers and plaster mixing. The Happy Shopper SDS you're so fond of recommending have about as much torque as arm wrestling Russell Brand.

I have a Kress. The screws sailed into the wood - very powerful. The average cheaply SDS has lots of torque.

(it seems off that Andy Hall is not coming in on this thread)

Are you completely mad?

Is that the one with the 15" steel side handle? I bought one for £10 when Wickes were clearing them out.

While I would agree, that armed with a suitable drill driver you can survive without a cordless impact driver well enough for many jobs, I have never found the manual type that useful. Last time I used mine was to photograph it for the wiki, and possibly 15 years prior to that to undo a stuck screw in a gate hinge.

In fact the best use I ever found for the manual driver, was when I discovered that you could stick the hex bits that came with it into the chuck of the old B&D and whiz big screws in with it!

I stand by what I said then:

Typically available ones at the time tended to be heavier square drive pneumatic ones.

A decent 18V drill driver will still drive a 6" screw

Variations on the tool had been about for ages, and the electric cordless variety was a more recent development at the time.

If you are in a workshop with compressed air available, then small pneumatic ones are cheap and can do a reasonable job.

In fact I note you said: "When the price drops and the cheaper DIY makes start making them, then the price will drop". If one ignores the tautology of "When the price drops", "then the price will drop", it is interesting to note that the cheaper DIY makes have still not started making them in any noticeable quantity even three years on.

The single function drivers can be used as a drill, but they still are at best a poor substitute (no chuck, no hammer action, no torque limiter, less resolution on the speed control, poorer bit centring).

Never tried one of the multi function ones.

It is clear you don't know the functions of the tool.

Which was total balls.

Balls!!! The Ryobi was available by then.

Balls.

The Makita small Impact Driver? There are lots sub £100.

Hammer? They drill very well.

That was one hell of a bargain! Fantastic drill that & great for mixing as well.

Bosch do SDS jigsaws that don't drill holes, can't be fitted with a drill and can't be used as an impact driver.

Depends on whether you have since realised how useful a cordless impact driver is, either large or small, and bought one.

It's plain the only tool you actually have used is that hacksaw. And we all know what happened next.

Hex drills are a waste of time.

Indeed - but of course dribble knows better than the owners of the name, Bosch.

It originally meant Steck - Dreh - Sitz (Insert Twist Stay)

Panasonic now do a cordless drill/driver/impact drill with changeable chucks

-

Yes they're useful but not essential in the same sort of way as a power drill is essential.

If I were starting out, but with my present experience of such things, I'd buy drills in this order:-

I actually possess 14 power drills of various types including two impact drivers.

Got a feeling there is a 4 function Makita as well. (i.e. combi drill + impact driver).

As were others, however they were relatively rare. The widely available angular impact tools at the time were the pneumatic ones. Hence my comment that "The electric cordless variety is a more recent development"

It would help if you appreciated that words like "typically", or "most" or "many", or "usually" and not statements of black and white - they allow for there being exceptions to something that is in general a rule.

You should try a decent one then. Mine does. I have even used it to drive a 107mm diamond core bit. The torque it develops in low gear is about the same as that from my SDS. The SDS is not as easy to use for screw driving either, since it is much too long, and the balance is in the wrong place.

Makita are not who I expect you were referring to as one of the "cheaper DIY makes". And you can't really consider the TD020D in the same league as the full size tools - it only develops 17Nm of torque which is significantly less than many larger drill drivers. Its main attraction is its reasonable performance for its small size and weight.

Most of the ones available are still from recognisable brands, rather than £19.95 specials fresh off the boat from China.

Into masonry? With a holesaw? The best you can say is it will drill ok in some circumstances... if you have hex shanked bits or an add on chuck. There are loads of jobs I do with my cordless drill that would be either very difficult or a right PITA to do with an impact driver.

Interesting.

I'd go for;

1. Good quality cordless combi.
2. SDS drill with rotation stop.
3. Impact driver (small), like the TD020E.

Hardly ever use a mains drill, use the SDS with a chuch adaptor. Got a Dremmel, waste of space, never use it.

You got me beat & I thought I was a tool freak :-)

Indeed there is - BTP140SFE 18v Li-Ion Cordless Impact Driver

"Combines all the best features of a combi drill driver and an impact drill!! Powerful, versatile four function power tool to cover a huge number of drilling & screw driving tasks: impact driver, screwdriver, power drill & percussion drill - all in one machine. Its features include a ¼" hex tool holder, variable forward & reverse control speed"

If Santa is listening.......