Last minute Christmas present - Impact Driver?

Here we are at Christmas Eve and I still haven't told Father Christmas what I'd like tomorrow!
I've often wondered about an impact driver. Ever since I bought an SDS drill, I've wondered how I ever managed without it. Is an impact driver in the same class? Would I be likely to use it instead of a regular drill/driver for inserting and removing all screws - or does it have limited application? Will I be more likely to smash the hell out of screw heads?
According to Wiki (the regular one, not "our" Wiki) there is a distinction between an impact driver and an impact wrench - the latter providing rotary impact without downwards impact at the same time. Presumably an impact *driver* wouldn't be suitable for undoing car wheel nuts - I'd need an impact "wrench" for that?
Any experiences from users of either would be very welcome.
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Cheers,
Roger
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Roger Mills wrote:

And I thought Screwstation were being optimistic with their "not too late to click and collect email" ...

If you look on youtube, there are videos showing the higher torque ones undoing wheelnuts with a 1/4" hex to 1/2" square adapter and suitable wheel nut socket, could easily end up snapping the 1/4" shaft I'd expect.
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The sort of device used for undoing car wheel nuts is a bit different from an impact screwdriver. Mine runs up to speed, then whacks the nut at intervals.
An impact driver turns normally, and only starts whacking the screw when needed. The beauty of them is they can produce a torque far greater than their size suggests - and greater than the motor on its own.
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*Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 24/12/2015 13:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I've gone one of these
http://www.its.co.uk/pd/108KITTD-Makita-10.8v-Lithium-ion-Impact-Driver-_MAK108KITTD.htm?gclid=CPybsenW9MkCFQQcwwodG60Eag
for everyday use and use it all the time on screws small or large. Dave is dead right, ridiculously powerful when you want it to be.
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Yup, I've got a simiar Bosch and us it all the time.
I know the name 'impact driver' makes it sounds like it be a slightly crude device that can mash up your screws, but IME it's less likely to cam out that a plain cordless drill/driver.
If mine died, I'd be straight out to get a new one.
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Chris French


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On 24/12/2015 17:01, Chris French wrote:

+1
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a cordless impact wrench has a male square end fitting to take a socket and is generally a lot more powerful ie.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-dcf899p2-gb-18v-5-0ah-li-ion-cordless-impact-wrench/2134j
(Product Code: 2134J)
a cordless "impact driver" has a female end fitting to take a hex screwdriver bit
http://www.screwfix.com/p/dewalt-dcf836m2-14-4v-4-0ah-li-ion-cordless-impact-driver-xr-brushless/10050
(Product Code: 10050)
you can of course use a driver with an adaptor to undo small nuts/bolts but not up to the size of wheel nuts
nether priduce a "downwards impact at the same time"
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On 24/12/2015 16:16, Mark wrote:

Thanks, yes. I had already come to that conclusion but those examples reinforce it

Indeed

Are you sure? The Wiki article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_driver gives the impression that powered impact drivers *do* provide an axial force in addition to a rotary impact - albeit not as great as the manual ones which you hit with a hammer. Is this not correct?
[It's now too late to buy anything before Christmas, of course, but no worries - they might be cheaper later!]
Another question: If I were to get a cordless impact driver for driving screws, how useful would an air-powered wrench be for driving wheel nuts, etc? I've got a compressor - not a massive one but big enough to need wheels. Is that likely to power a windy wrench?
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Roger
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Roger Mills wrote:

impact-wrench/2134j

impact-driver-xr-brushless/10050

absolutely as i have both, its only the manual non electric bang it on the head type that does that, by way of the bang on the head! and yes an 1/2" air powered impact wrench in comparison is very cheap and will remove wheel nuts with ease. but do use quite a bit of air so you may have to wait for the compressor to refill between 3 or 4 nuts

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On 24/12/2015 20:58, Roger Mills wrote:

Even a small one with a 25l cylinder will do a few wheel nuts before you have to pause for it to fill. They tend to be intermittent use rather than needing a continuous supply.
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On 25/12/2015 00:14, dennis@home wrote:

Mine[1] holds 24 litres, and claims to be able to deliver 270 litres/minute - but the book says it's *not* designed to drive tools which use a lot of air such as orbital sanders, rod grinders (whatever they are!) or hammer screwdrivers. Where does that leave impact wrenches?
[1] Parkside PKO 270 A1 (from Lidl)
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Roger
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On 25/12/2015 01:51, Roger Mills wrote:

Sounds similar to the 1.5hp 25L SIP model I bought from Andy Hall some years back - it will drive the impact wrench ok, but works best when at full pressure. So you can only run the tool for a limited time before needing to let the compressor recharge if you need the maximum torque from it. Usually ok for doing a wheel's worth of nuts, but might start to loose grunt if doing two in quick succession, or if you need to hammer away at a stuck nut for 30 seconds etc.
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John.
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On 25/12/2015 14:34, John Rumm wrote:

Thanks. probably not worth it for the amount of car stuff I do these days - mainly limited to swapping two sets (summer/winter) of wheels and tyres twice a year. I have a wheel wrench with a long telescopic handle for loosening the bolts, and I can then spin them out using an ordinary cordless drill with a hex to 1/2" drive adapter.
It sounds from your other replies - for which many thanks - that a lower capacity impact driver may be a useful addition to my tool kit. I will have a serious look at them.
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Roger
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On 24/12/2015 20:58, Roger Mills wrote:

I have a pneumatic wrench, and its handy, but gets very little use - probably because I do very little car related work. I last used it for undoing the retaining nuts on the blades on the mower.
Still it was also fairly cheap (£20 to £30 IIRC), so not excessive for the couple of times a year it saves a bit of time and effort.
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John.
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On 24/12/2015 20:58, Roger Mills wrote:

I think that wiki article is actually less good than our own:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Impact_driver
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John.
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On 24/12/2015 12:26, Roger Mills wrote:

Its close - perhaps not quite as dramatic shift, but still significant.

IME you will use it for most screw driving jobs since it requires less physical effort than a drill driver. You need to keep the bit seated in the screw head, but you don't need anything like the push you require with a drill driver to prevent cam out.

Use good quality driver bits - the wiha and vera ones are good. SF own brand ones not bad. You are probably less likely to damage a screw head than with a DD (although see the comment about keeping the bit seated - letting it "chatter" in the head will shag both).

This seems to be an area of confusion which suggests that there are variations of mechanism out there in the market. The IDs I have (The small Makita TD020D, the 10.8V LiIon one, and the 18V monster), all have a rotary action only. They only differ from what would normally be termed an impact wrench in having a 1/4" hex drive rather than a 1/2" square socket drive, and the amount of peak torque available. My 18V ID will do upto about 160Nm IIRC, whereas a large impact wrench may well do 400 - 600Nm.
However I suspect that there are some IDs that also have a linear hammer action in addition to the angular one. (there was some controversy when Steve Ramsey (YouTube - "Woodworking for mere mortals") made a comment about a "tapping" action on an ID and started a flame war in the comments with lots of harry style refutation and name calling from some saying there is no hammer action, and from others agreeing.

You may find one of the more powerful IDs would shift a wheel nut (with appropriate 1/4" hex to square drive adaptor - but it might not have quite enough oomph.

I started with an 18V model (selected since buying it body only was cheap and it used the same batts and charger as my combi drill). That became the go to tool for screwing anything from about 3/4" size 6 screws and up. Its quite a lump in the hand though, and is less suited for small stuff and furniture work.
The 10.8V is better for smaller stuff. (the 10.8V kit of combi and ID, is often all I would take to a job site if say installing a TV on a wall for a customer - plenty able to sink a hole in masonry for plugs and 2.5" screws etc). However I would not use if say screwing down a floor or framing studwork.
The very small 7.2V TD020D lacks the power for anything much about a 1.5" screw, but is good on smaller stuff and in smaller spaces. I tend to use that even for whizzing screws out of PCs etc, or say driving small screws into the underside of a worktop from a kitchen cabinet where its length and tubular shape make it good for "reaching in" to things.
If you have a compressor, then a full on impact wrench is fairly cheap, and will do wheel nuts (you can also use it for heavy screw driving with appropriate adaptors). The electric ones that do the same are very nice, but quite pricey as they are less of a mass market thing.
Finally there are a few times where a drill driver will be more useful. Firstly if trying to be quiet - IDs make lots of noise - so if working in a busy office etc I might elect to use the drill rather than the ID. There are also a few times where you can't shift a screw with an ID but can with a drill - normally longer fastenings where they are stuck with a fair bit if shaft still exposed. The elasticity of the fastening can absorb and then recover from the angular impact without actually turning the end, but it can't resist the continuous "wind up" from the normal drill.
My recommendation if you are buying your first and want a general building tool would be to go for something 14.4V or larger since it will be the most versatile tool.
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Cheers,

John.
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