"Sticking" roof tiles and stone patio slabs with mortar

Is there a trick to make red roof tiles and stone patio slabs stick to mortar?

We have a low wall which has a row of S-shaped red roof tiles set into mortar at 45 degrees to the horizontal along the top as coping stones. Some of these are loose: they are held in place only by the moulded peg on the tile, but lift off. I made up some mortar, laid it on top of the existing mortar and bedded the tiles into it. But the tiles have not adhered to the mortar: the new mortar has bonded to the existing mortar, but the tiles have not bonded to my new mortar. I can see the impression in the mortar of imperfections in the tiles, so there has been good contact over a large area.

Similarly, our patio has stone slabs (stone, as opposed to concrete) and a few at the edge of a shallow step are triangular parts of a full slab. I chiselled out the existing mortar and made up some more (I couldn't use the existing mortar because when I added fresh mortar as the "adhesive" it raised the slab too high above the others. I got the new tile nicely bedded in at the right height and level. But a week later one of the tiles hasn't stuck at all. The others are fine.

Is there something I'm doing wrong: should a roof tile or a stone slab bond to mortar that it is bedded into, or is it necessary to add something? I'm using standard ready-mixed mortar (*), mixed with water to make a moderately stiff paste. IN the case of the patio slabs I added a bed of mortar that was stiff enough that it can be moulded to an edge which will bear the weight of the slab without squeezing out, and then used a slightly more sloppy mortar as the top layer that the stone comes into contact with. Having laid the tile/slab and adjusted the position/level to match the surrounding ones, within the first few seconds of putting it in place, I have taken care not to move the tile again. The weather has been warm, and there has not been rain for several days after laying. And at this time of year the temperature has never dropped to freezing: I think the coldest temp was about 3 deg C overnight, several nights after laying the tiles/slabs.

When relaying slabs which have come unstuck. is there any alternative to using mortar, which doesn't require all the existing mortar to be removed to avoid the new mortar raising the level above the surrounding ones.

In the case of the stone slab, I didn't get as far as re-pointing the gap between other slabs alongside it: I suppose if I had that pointing, it might provide additional adhesion and support to hold the slab in place.

(*) It was described as being suitable for bricklaying and laying of patio slabs. I forget the proportions but I seem to remember it was about 80% sand

20% Portland cement, so a 4:1 mixture which seems to be about what is recommended.
Reply to
NY
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On 27/06/2021 11:23, NY wrote:0

There are things you can do to help...

You are better of laying the slab onto a decent thickness bed anyway...

Its important to remember that mortar does not cure by "drying" - it's not like a glue in that sense. Curing is a chemical process where the added water should become an intrinsic part of the final material. This does mean that you need to take some care in hot dry conditions that it does not dry out too fast, and prevent the cement from fully hydrating leaving a weak final mix. This is why covering with damp sacking or some other other protective layer can help the moisture be retained and to achieve a better final strength.

Also with absorbent building materials, you often need to wet them before laying them onto a mortar bed, otherwise they can have too much "suction" - drawing water out of the mix and preventing it from fully hydrating as it cures.

Make sure (the backs of) the slabs are clean and free from lose stuff before laying. I normally also "paint" them with either a mixture of water and SBR[2], or water SBR and cement slurry, to assist in creating a strong bond.

[2] SBR being much better than PVA IME.

For decorative stuff you might get a good result with a two part anchor resin. (the tuff in the mastic tubes designed for resin bonding fixings)

- it mixes as its ejected from the tube.

Reply to
John Rumm

I had to have a chuckle a few years ago. A low wall was finished in sloping tiles as I assume has been described, but at some point there had been holes made in the tiles and a long screw put through, one supposes into the underlying structure to hold each in place. One still wobbled though and the reddish paint was giving way to rust on some of the screw heads. Very weird. Brian

Reply to
Brian Gaff (Sofa

Thanks for the reminder. I'd been pointing between some of the patio stones a while ago and had variable results with the mortar sometimes setting rock-solid and sometimes setting like hard earth which was hard until you rubbed or scratched it. I was doing it before the sun got very hot each day (partly so I wasn't working in the blazing sun) but I wonder if the heat later in the day was causing the water to evaporate or leach into the stones too quickly before the cement-water setting reaction had taken place. I knew that mortar doesn't set in very cold conditions; I'd forgotten or not realised that very hot conditions are also a problem.

I bet that's why I'm having problems. I'll try wetting the slabs/tiles and letting the water absorb, and then applying SBR.

Ah, I wondered whether there was something like this, but I wasn't sure what to look for.

Would it help in sticking back slabs that have come loose from the mortar, without having to chisel out *all* the mortar down to the underlying brick support and redo *all* of it just because the slab has come unstuck? The slabs have an overhang of maybe an inch beyond the supporting mortar, so sod's law means sooner or later someone will step on the unsupported edge which could cause it to pivot about the supporting edge.

I'm gradually learning the tricks of the trade.

Reply to
NY

There is only so thin you can go with a bed of mortar - otherwise you will suck the water out and same problem as before. 10mm is probably you minimum.

Any thinner than that, then resin bonding would likely work better (but significantly more expensive if doing more than a small number!)

More of a risk on smaller slabs - big heavy ones will probably be ok.

Reply to
John Rumm

Is it worth soaking the slabs?

Andy

Reply to
Vir Campestris

If using mortar, and it's a very hot day, then dunking them in water can help. If resin bonding, then generally no need - but check the instructions on the resin. Some PU type glues actually require some moisture to set.

Reply to
John Rumm

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