Spray gun advice ...

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W.T,F, What drugs are you on? Iimproved the shine slightly but this doesn't constitute polishing the surface ?

Have you any idea what you are talking about ?

Think of days before car polishing compounds were available. They had nothi ng better so this is what they used.

But I just did and showed you. Whjat more do you want.

What else could I polish if not the skin ?

Wet and dry abrasives have not changed in any extent since it was invented by 3m many moons ago so whats this nonsense about 'Modern day wet or (c.v.) dry sand paper. (It is known as wet AND dry paper) and has been a silicon c arbide grit based abrasive for as long as I can remember.

In the end of the day one is only using an abrasive to smooth the surface. What that abrasive is, is irrelevant.

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For a while I thought perhaps you knew what you were talking about but this is utter bollix. The degree of reflectance of a polished surface is down t o how smooth the surface is. The smoother the surface the higher the reflec tance. This is a question of degree. Pumice stone, jeweller's rouge, rotten stone all are just abrasives with varying degrees of coarseness. The finer the abrasive the smoother the surface the higher the reflectance but it is still just a matter of degree.

'T' cut polishes the surface as I conclusively proved. This is not to say f iner abrasives would not give a better finish but I never claimed that. I j ust claimed the paint could be polished.

wrote: [snip]

Yes that's a process known as "polishing".

Why would you want to 'polish' a paint to a finish inferior to from the brush?

Oh - I forgot. You're fred.

Polishing is normally done to improve the appearance of the surface. Just what happens with car paints. With household oil paints, it doesn't.

.....and what did my experiment show ?

Why dont you just pack it in and admit you were wrong. Chopping and changing your position and vituperative responses only confirms what you are.

And is a process of removing a tiny amount of paint to improve the shine slightly. It is done with abrasives of finer and finer grade ending with a penultimate polish with an abrasive that breaks down under pressure into finer abrasive particles. The final polishing process is with a wax to fill the tiny scratches and to provide a surface gloss.

Actually it does, it's possible to polish household paint to a high gloss. One needs to take account of the longer drying time (or rather the longer time required for polymerisation of the binder) but it's still possible.

============ "One of the best ways to get a reasonably smooth and shiny finish is to use an oil paint, such as Benj. Moore's High Gloss Impervo, and apply several coats using a short nap mohair roller (6", 9" or 12"), letting each coat dry overnight before recoating. The oil paint is pretty good at leveling out into a fairly smooth finish.

"You can make the surface even smoother by lightly wet sanding between coats with a 400 grit sandpaper. The wet /dry sandpaper is black, and usually comes in 200, 400, and 600 grits. You use this paper by applying a little water to the surface, and then lightly sand the surface, all the while keeping the surface wet. Wet sanding allows you to quickly sand the surface, all the while keeping scratches to a minimum. The top coat of black, applied evenly, will dry pretty smooth.

"If you want to push it further, and make the surface even smoother, then you can, after wet sanding with the 600 grit paper, take some automotive rubbing compound, and using either a power buffer or some serious elbow grease, buff the surface, removing any visible scratches. The finish will now be smooth, though with a slightly hazy sheen. Use some automotive polishing compound to remove the haze and bring up the shine. The more time spent on this step, the greater the gloss."

============ "[H]ow do they get the door of No 10 so shiny?

"One simple answer is elbow grease: a flotilla of maintenance staff, lighting up the night with their exertions. Never has gloss seemed so glossy. So, how to get the look. The answer - again - is hard work (there's a lesson there, too).

"A proper primer and undercoat, and even a gesso (thick, chalky pigment to level off the grain of the wood), sanded down afterwards, then maybe four or five coats of a good paint, allowed to dry thoroughly and sanded after every coat.

...

"American paint expert Glenwood Sherry recommends wet-sanding with a

I'm assuming from your comments on this that you have never done a decent job of painting a door. It takes bloody ages and as detailed above part of that ages is taking the time to flat down between coats and to *polish* the surface to remove brush marks and ensure a glossy finish. Final varnish or wax coats are used to protect the surface, just like painting a car.

If, as you seem to claim, the gloss does not harden sufficiently after

The difference between car paint, cellulose in particular, and oil based paint is the time factor. You can polish cellulose within the hour, with the exception of application of a wax.

Indeed. About 30 years ago we moved into a new house with high quality 4 panel doors throughout.

I went gradually down to 800g, and a number of coats, matting between each coat. The final very high gloss finish led my mother-in-law to accuse me of having them spray painted.

Talking of front doors I always envied the residents of Amsterdam their very high gloss finish front doors. Achieved via gesso I believe.

The finish was so good over the next 15 years I never had to re-paint a door

The sh "I've been inside 10 Downing Street and the front door is reinforced steel. It also has no lock which is why they have an attendant to open and close it."

The first part of which does indeed agree with me - right or wrong!

So you've never seen the paint finish straight from the gun being polished to perfection on a car?

Which bit of 'ordinary household oil paint' was too difficult for you to understand?

Only civil servants would have the time to waste doing it that way. Or have the money to spend on having it done.

Nothing like painting a car. Which you obviously know nothing about.

I'd suggest you try buffing ordinary oil paint after 24 hours drying. Then come back to us with some experience - not your usual trawling the net to try and find something to back up what you think.

At least you've got that bit right.

Seen it and done it. But at this point we are not talking about cars.

None of it, the reference above is to household oil based paint. As you would see if you hadn't blinded yourself. Note the words "oil paint" repeated in the quoted text.

Oh look, you're off trying to change the subject, again. I've already said it takes time and effort, but you were, until your latest wriggle, claiming that it wasn't possible.

I seem to know more about it than you chum. I suspect you are still trapped in the past. Clear top coats have been standard on cars since the end of the dark ages.

Been there, done that, produced a door that looked like the one at No 10. Thanks for asking. Not just done it, but done it in several houses over many years using Johnstones and Brewers oil based paints.

You're the one who clearly has never done the job, as is clear from your drivel here.

It's amusing how you twist and turn. If I make a statement based on my experience you dismiss it out of hand. If I support a statement with evidence you lash out about "trawling the net".

I got all of it right and I produced evidence to support that it's not just my opinion. You OTOH just flapped your lips and did your usual insults.

You can have that last word you want now.

workshop. Pulled out an old box I had brush painted with household paint some time ago. Masked off a strip. Polished one side with 'T'cut. Result can be seen at link.

polish household paint is provided. You can even see the rag where the 'T' cut removed a little of the surface.

experimenting with. MDF primed and one coat of household paint applied.

of the surface and not really polishing etc.

level of gloss can be seen. It might not be a mirror finish but I really couldn't be arsed going to a lot of trouble just to prove the point.

unsuitable to be polished is irrelevant twaddle.

the iPhone.

It does not seem flat it just seems shinier uneven surface.

workshop. Pulled out an old box I had brush painted with household paint some time ago. Masked off a strip. Polished one side with 'T'cut. Result can be seen at link.

polish household paint is provided. You can even see the rag where the 'T' cut removed a little of the surface.

experimenting with. MDF primed and one coat of household paint applied.

of the surface and not really polishing etc.

level of gloss can be seen. It might not be a mirror finish but I really couldn't be arsed going to a lot of trouble just to prove the point.

unsuitable to be polished is irrelevant twaddle.

from the iPhone.

What you say is true but the object of the exercise was to prove that oil based paint could have its sheen improved by the application of 'T' cut.

workshop. Pulled out an old box I had brush painted with household paint some time ago. Masked off a strip. Polished one side with 'T'cut. Result can be seen at link.

polish household paint is provided. You can even see the rag where the 'T' cut removed a little of the surface.

experimenting with. MDF primed and one coat of household paint applied.

of the surface and not really polishing etc.

level of gloss can be seen. It might not be a mirror finish but I really couldn't be arsed going to a lot of trouble just to prove the point.

unsuitable to be polished is irrelevant twaddle.

from the iPhone.

based paint could have its sheen improved by the application of 'T' cut.

It is possible but through the discussion I was thinking that you meant that house oil paint with sanding and polishing you could equal sprayed paint IE flat, shiny no grooves no brush marks etc. I dare say,If I had a 10 year old surface it may be possible but for all intents and purposes it is not practical and spraying is almost always a better finish than brushed.

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il based paint could have its sheen improved by the application of 'T' cut.

Oh God don't start this all over again.

Read the thread.

I use ordinary domestic oil paint

Who mentioned waiting 10 years/ You just have to wait till it dries. Intern ally 24 hours should suffice. If you try sanding it too soon the abrasive p aper will clog up very quickly.

There is no magic in achieving a high gloss with oil paint. Depending on wh at you wish its not even necessary to use polishing compound only if you wa nt a very high gloss.

Prime/undercoat Flat 120g

Second undercoat Flat 180g

Keep going though I usually find going to 800g sufficient. Others may have a different approach but this works for me.

By Flat I mean get the surface completely matt. Illuminate with a cross lig ht if needs be. After the initial few coats any flatting will be very light

Spraying is not always possible, internal doors etc., and spraying still re quires flatting between coats. Yes you can apply numerous heavy coats with a spray gun but you will end up with a jammy/treacly type finish. Very un-a ttractive to the discerning eye. And, to go back to my original point, spra ying requires more preparation and clean up afterwards unless you are using cans which are costly and the range of colours is very limited.

And I disagree that spraying always gives a better finish than a brush.

I am utterly astounded at the lack of knowledge of this subject. It must be a generational thing

Internal doors are easy enough to spray - take them outside or to the garage. It is things like skirting, door frames, windows that are difficult to impossible.

You can get cans of spray paint in any colour that paint is made in.

Not everyone knows about everything. There are tiny little areas in which I feel I probably know more than most - and huge areas where I feel utterly ignorant.

I have never had the combination of time, access, etc., and, frankly, need or desire to make every gloss surface in the house mirror-like. Sure, if I were trying to put a good paint surface on an item of furniture. But not for the rest of the house.

Why did you use 'ordinary domestic oil paint' to achieve your perfect finish when everyone knows there are better ways to do it? Like by using decent paint for a start?

Quite. And by using the correct paint you'd have your perfect finish on that door in a far shorter timescale than waiting for ordinary paint to harden sufficiently, so you can rub it down for those multiple coats.

But of course it is fred. Removing a door might well be beyond him.

Well I wasn't intending to slag anyone but the subject under discussion is one so basic to me hence my astonishment. The idea that oil based paint app lied by brush wouldn't flow out properly or that it couldn't be brought to a high gloss to me was so ludicrous I though someone was taking the mick. A nd unlike other contributors to this thread I do not claim to know everythi ng.

When I did this job I had access to neither workspace or spraying equipment . However now when I have access to both I would still be loath to remove d oors to spray them. A perfectly acceptable, to me, finish, can be achieved by brush as has been done for years and is still being done in the vast maj ority of cases.

I don't think you can get spray cans in Farrow and Ball colours. Apart from the price the paint in these cans is thinned right down to allow it be spr ayed. The consequence is that more coats are required to achieve a good fin ish

Even when spraying, to achieve a good depth and gloss it is necessary to ap ply a number of coats and flat between them.

Unless you are advocating spraying with a fast drying enamel, where your ra nge of colours will tend to be mostly industrial or agricultural tones, you are still spraying ordinary oil based paint with the same drying times. Th inking about this, with the average spray equipment available to the DIY ma n, this paint will also have to be thinned out more than would be necessary with a brush application.

Yes you could place the door horizontally on trestles and lash on the paint , I've seen it done, but the final finish is going to be atrocious. A good finish requires the requisite number of coats. The more coats with interven ing flatting the deeper the gloss.

Neither would I have the time or desire to have every paint finish in the h ouse a high gloss one, and I never suggested it, but in the case in hand we had just moved into a brand new house, I was a lot younger, and not having television I had lots of time for the job. I wanted to do a job that woul d last and was curious as to how good a finish I could achieve,and it was o nly the doors I did, not all the paintwork.

Spray painting is 99.9% of the time an industrial process where the main ad vantages are speed and the ability to use extremely fast drying finishes. A s stated previously, I find it generally involves too much faffing about to use it for small jobs.

Funny I though you would have learned your lesson by now. You, and your daft ideas have been so thoroughly trounced in this thread I'm surprised you have the nerve to raise your head again.

But then again its Plowman, what else could we expect.

The cretin who never misses the opportunity to open his mouth and put his foot in it.

Who delights in demonstrating his e.s.n. failings.

The man who doesn't know that when in a hole stop digging.

Who demonstrably knows nothing about the subject in hand.

I think your other alias is Harry.

Ah well , more to be pitied than laughed at.