Spray gun advice ...

On 12/06/2013 12:58, fred wrote:

I know that at least one fairly major manufacturer of paints in the UK uses vast quantities of soy oil. Possibly depends on definition of "base materials".
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Rod

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Any oil based paint is described as a synthetic, for example Linseed, Alkyd, Polyurethane and basically any paint that can be diluted in Turpentine, whereas Cellulose, Acrylic, and two component are not.
Stephen.
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On Thursday, June 13, 2013 1:15:13 PM UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@btinternet.com wrote:

Being utterly fed up with all the drivel being talked here I went to my workshop. Pulled out an old box I had brush painted with household paint some time ago. Masked off a strip. Polished one side with 'T'cut. Result can be seen at link.
http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/tpaul2/library/
Now all you 'experts' can squirm and argue all you like. Proof of ability to polish household paint is provided. You can even see the rag where the 'T' cut removed a little of the surface.
Please do not discuss quality of painting etc. This is just an old box I was experimenting with. MDF primed and one coat of household paint applied.
And equally I don't want to read any rubbish about 'T' cut removing a little of the surface and not really polishing etc.
Not interested in semantics discussing definitions of 'polished'
Not interested in reasons only results. It polished the surface. The higher level of gloss can be seen. It might not be a mirror finish but I really couldn't be arsed going to a lot of trouble just to prove the point.
All this discussion about the make up of different paints making some unsuitable to be polished is irrelevant twaddle.
Proof of the pudding is in the eating.
And no I haven't photo-shopped it or made any corrections to it. Straight from the iPhone.
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And just how long had this been left before you attempted this? With car paints, you can flat back and polish shortly after application. With household oil paints you'd be talking months - if ever.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Indeed, You can't polish oil straight away even Alkyd resin, it has to cure for several weeks first before is becomes hard enough.
Stephen.
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Your idea of polishing something appears to be going from very very very rough to very very rough.
Try polishing it to a true mirror finish.
That some paint has come off on the cloth means you've used an abrasive. Same would happen with sand paper.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:28:02 AM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

t
t
Now you are demonstrating the abysmal depths of your ignorance of the subje ct under discussion not to mention changing your position. I never made any claims about how high a gloss could be obtained by polishing a domestic pa int only that it could be polished.
I've proved I could do this. Wriggle and squirm all you like all your claim s have been shot to pieces. Too late now to start qualifying your statement s. When you are in a hole stop digging as at this stage you are only demons trating your argumentativeness and your inability to admit you were wrong .
I have proved my point.
I have demonstrated this proof.
Give it up sunshine.
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Why would you want to 'polish' a paint to a finish inferior to from the brush?
Oh - I forgot. You're fred.
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*All men are idiots, and I married their King.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

That does not prove is can be polished, all you've done it remove a tiny amount of paint which has improved the shine slightly.
To polish a traditional Linseed oil based paint you would have used pumice powder or cuttlefish bone as a slurry compound as this was used in various degrees of fineness to either flat or enhance a shine on an oil finish, think horse drawn carriages.
You CANNOT polish oil paint using modern car finishing compounds like T-cut or Farecla etc because they are too course a substance. Traditional oil paint can only be polished using Rottenstone or similar ultra fine polishing compounds (Liberol range for example) and even then you still polish the skin.
You could use modern wet-or-dry sand papers but this method is far less effective than the old fashioned methods used on oil paints.
Stephen.
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snip

W.T,F, What drugs are you on? Iimproved the shine slightly but this doesn't constitute polishing the surface ?
Have you any idea what you are talking about ?

Think of days before car polishing compounds were available. They had nothi ng better so this is what they used.

But I just did and showed you. Whjat more do you want.

What else could I polish if not the skin ?

Wet and dry abrasives have not changed in any extent since it was invented by 3m many moons ago so whats this nonsense about 'Modern day wet or (c.v.) dry sand paper. (It is known as wet AND dry paper) and has been a silicon c arbide grit based abrasive for as long as I can remember.
In the end of the day one is only using an abrasive to smooth the surface. What that abrasive is, is irrelevant.
snip
For a while I thought perhaps you knew what you were talking about but this is utter bollix. The degree of reflectance of a polished surface is down t o how smooth the surface is. The smoother the surface the higher the reflec tance. This is a question of degree. Pumice stone, jeweller's rouge, rotten stone all are just abrasives with varying degrees of coarseness. The finer the abrasive the smoother the surface the higher the reflectance but it is still just a matter of degree.
'T' cut polishes the surface as I conclusively proved. This is not to say f iner abrasives would not give a better finish but I never claimed that. I j ust claimed the paint could be polished.
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[snip]

Yes that's a process known as "polishing".
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In article

Polishing is normally done to improve the appearance of the surface. Just what happens with car paints. With household oil paints, it doesn't.
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*Just give me chocolate and nobody gets hurt

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On Sunday, June 16, 2013 11:34:40 AM UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

.....and what did my experiment show ?
Why dont you just pack it in and admit you were wrong. Chopping and changing your position and vituperative responses only confirms what you are.
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And is a process of removing a tiny amount of paint to improve the shine slightly. It is done with abrasives of finer and finer grade ending with a penultimate polish with an abrasive that breaks down under pressure into finer abrasive particles. The final polishing process is with a wax to fill the tiny scratches and to provide a surface gloss.

Actually it does, it's possible to polish household paint to a high gloss. One needs to take account of the longer drying time (or rather the longer time required for polymerisation of the binder) but it's still possible.
==========="One of the best ways to get a reasonably smooth and shiny finish is to use an oil paint, such as Benj. Moore's High Gloss Impervo, and apply several coats using a short nap mohair roller (6", 9" or 12"), letting each coat dry overnight before recoating. The oil paint is pretty good at leveling out into a fairly smooth finish.
"You can make the surface even smoother by lightly wet sanding between coats with a 400 grit sandpaper. The wet /dry sandpaper is black, and usually comes in 200, 400, and 600 grits. You use this paper by applying a little water to the surface, and then lightly sand the surface, all the while keeping the surface wet. Wet sanding allows you to quickly sand the surface, all the while keeping scratches to a minimum. The top coat of black, applied evenly, will dry pretty smooth.
"If you want to push it further, and make the surface even smoother, then you can, after wet sanding with the 600 grit paper, take some automotive rubbing compound, and using either a power buffer or some serious elbow grease, buff the surface, removing any visible scratches. The finish will now be smooth, though with a slightly hazy sheen. Use some automotive polishing compound to remove the haze and bring up the shine. The more time spent on this step, the greater the gloss."
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art45483.asp
==========="[H]ow do they get the door of No 10 so shiny?
"One simple answer is elbow grease: a flotilla of maintenance staff, lighting up the night with their exertions. Never has gloss seemed so glossy. So, how to get the look. The answer - again - is hard work (there's a lesson there, too).
"A proper primer and undercoat, and even a gesso (thick, chalky pigment to level off the grain of the wood), sanded down afterwards, then maybe four or five coats of a good paint, allowed to dry thoroughly and sanded after every coat.
...
"American paint expert Glenwood Sherry recommends wet-sanding with a 400-grit paper and polishing between coats, then finishing off with a water-based varnish: 'Oil-based varnishes and polyurethanes have an amber tint and will discolour the surface.' "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/renovatinganddiy/7736965/10-Downing- Street-how-to-get-the-look.html
I'm assuming from your comments on this that you have never done a decent job of painting a door. It takes bloody ages and as detailed above part of that ages is taking the time to flat down between coats and to *polish* the surface to remove brush marks and ensure a glossy finish. Final varnish or wax coats are used to protect the surface, just like painting a car.
If, as you seem to claim, the gloss does not harden sufficiently after 24 hours to permit wet and dry sanding and polishing then none of the above would work. Yet it does.
The difference between car paint, cellulose in particular, and oil based paint is the time factor. You can polish cellulose within the hour, with the exception of application of a wax.
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On Sunday, June 16, 2013 2:42:39 PM UTC+1, Steve Firth wrote:

Indeed. About 30 years ago we moved into a new house with high quality 4 panel doors throughout.
I went gradually down to 800g, and a number of coats, matting between each coat. The final very high gloss finish led my mother-in-law to accuse me of having them spray painted.
Talking of front doors I always envied the residents of Amsterdam their very high gloss finish front doors. Achieved via gesso I believe.
The finish was so good over the next 15 years I never had to re-paint a door
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On 16/06/2013 14:42, Steve Firth wrote:

The shine of No. 10's door appeared to change radically quite a lot of years ago. (Maybe during IRA campaign times?) I suspected that it is now a heavy steel object. On your above link someone has posted:
"I've been inside 10 Downing Street and the front door is reinforced steel. It also has no lock which is why they have an attendant to open and close it."
The first part of which does indeed agree with me - right or wrong!
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Rod

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So you've never seen the paint finish straight from the gun being polished to perfection on a car?

Which bit of 'ordinary household oil paint' was too difficult for you to understand?

Only civil servants would have the time to waste doing it that way. Or have the money to spend on having it done.

Nothing like painting a car. Which you obviously know nothing about.

I'd suggest you try buffing ordinary oil paint after 24 hours drying. Then come back to us with some experience - not your usual trawling the net to try and find something to back up what you think.

At least you've got that bit right.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Seen it and done it. But at this point we are not talking about cars.

None of it, the reference above is to household oil based paint. As you would see if you hadn't blinded yourself. Note the words "oil paint" repeated in the quoted text.
[snip]

Oh look, you're off trying to change the subject, again. I've already said it takes time and effort, but you were, until your latest wriggle, claiming that it wasn't possible.

trapped in the past. Clear top coats have been standard on cars since the end of the dark ages.
[snip]

Been there, done that, produced a door that looked like the one at No 10. Thanks for asking. Not just done it, but done it in several houses over many years using Johnstones and Brewers oil based paints.

You're the one who clearly has never done the job, as is clear from your drivel here.
It's amusing how you twist and turn. If I make a statement based on my experience you dismiss it out of hand. If I support a statement with evidence you lash out about "trawling the net".

I got all of it right and I produced evidence to support that it's not just my opinion. You OTOH just flapped your lips and did your usual insults.
You can have that last word you want now.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

workshop. Pulled out an old box I had brush painted with household paint some time ago. Masked off a strip. Polished one side with 'T'cut. Result can be seen at link.

polish household paint is provided. You can even see the rag where the 'T' cut removed a little of the surface.

level of gloss can be seen. It might not be a mirror finish but I really couldn't be arsed going to a lot of trouble just to prove the point.

It does not seem flat it just seems shinier uneven surface.
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On Monday, June 17, 2013 4:11:05 AM UTC+1, F Murtz wrote:

workshop. Pulled out an old box I had brush painted with household paint some time ago. Masked off a strip. Polished one side with 'T'cut. Result can be seen at link.

polish household paint is provided. You can even see the rag where the 'T' cut removed a little of the surface.

level of gloss can be seen. It might not be a mirror finish but I really couldn't be arsed going to a lot of trouble just to prove the point.

What you say is true but the object of the exercise was to prove that oil based paint could have its sheen improved by the application of 'T' cut.
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