Ah well we are arguing from the general to the particular now. I wouldn't dream of trying to paint a van with a brush and oil paint. Horses for courses, I was thinking more of general domestic uses.
On Wednesday, June 12, 2013 10:26:51 AM UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@btinternet.com wro te:
Which is where I came in.
I never claimed one could. Obviuosly the product used will affect the final outcome
I continue to disagree. I have polished oil based painted surfaces in situ ations where I required a high gloss, and certainly got a high gloss finish . (Detailing on furniture)It's not something I would do on a regular basis as it is too tedious for the gains obtained. I usually find that going down to 600/800g paper before applying the final finish gives me a satisfactory finish. After that its down to brush technique
I'm sorry we are getting away from the general discussion as to the ability to polish a brush painted surface which is where I came in.
I worked for a number of years for one of the now defunct industrial paint manufacturers so I do have a little experience to call on. My duties invol ved problem solving which by its nature meant I frequently had to demonstra te various finishing techniques to show that the problem allegedly with the paint was actually and usually down to operator error.
Never discussed car finishes.
So you are saying you can flat any household paint, then polish - as is the norm with car paints?
And you said you were experienced with spray paints?
It's you who is arguing a point that only you made. No one in their right mind would attempt to spray the sort of household bits that would normally be brush painted, like the woodwork in a room. Doors and skirting, etc.
But it is possible to paint a vehicle by brush and get excellent results. It was once how all vehicles were painted.
Quite. I do sometimes wonder what Fred's on.
Yes. And I stand by my statement all paints are synthetic. I dont know any volume manufacturer who is currently using 'natural' base materials
volume manufacturer who is currently using 'natural' base materials
I know that at least one fairly major manufacturer of paints in the UK uses vast quantities of soy oil. Possibly depends on definition of "base materials".
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never mentioned car paints and yes you can flat any oil based household paint and after applying the final coat the surface can be brought up by polishing.
This is nothing unusual.
What are you wittering on about. Who is talking about spraying household bits ? ISTR you are the advocate of spray painting not me. I fear you have got lost in this thread and are mixing up contributions from different people
I'm saying it is. It forms a skin which gives the gloss. Remove that and you'll never get the gloss back without re-painting.
Nonsense. It doesn't form a skin. It hardens into a solid film. You can chip it off. It only skins over if too much is applied.
Within reason any solid hard surface can be polished.
But you said
"Good paint applied correctly has flow characteristics that allow it to self level".
Define good paint.
Describe exactly what type of oil paint you can polish? No modern oil paint needs polishing as the finish cannot be improved by polishing a film that is not designed to be polished.
You mentioned using a car finishing polishing method on oil paint, which is not possible or required on oil.
Any oil based paint is described as a synthetic, for example Linseed, Alkyd, Polyurethane and basically any paint that can be diluted in Turpentine, whereas Cellulose, Acrylic, and two component are not.
Stephen.
Nonsense indeed!
It does form a skin, that how synthetics work, you are describing polishing this skin which as you say can chip off. It is still a skin whatever the thickness of paint applied either by spray or brush, you don't get this skin with none synthetic paints.
None synthetics are soluble in their own solvent they resoften melt or bond to form one solid layer of paint which can be very thick. Synthetics or oil paint sits on top of each subsequent layer and it is this layer or skin you are polishing.
Stephen
Being utterly fed up with all the drivel being talked here I went to my workshop. Pulled out an old box I had brush painted with household paint some time ago. Masked off a strip. Polished one side with 'T'cut. Result can be seen at link.
Now all you 'experts' can squirm and argue all you like. Proof of ability to polish household paint is provided. You can even see the rag where the 'T' cut removed a little of the surface.
Please do not discuss quality of painting etc. This is just an old box I was experimenting with. MDF primed and one coat of household paint applied.
And equally I don't want to read any rubbish about 'T' cut removing a little of the surface and not really polishing etc.
Not interested in semantics discussing definitions of 'polished'
Not interested in reasons only results. It polished the surface. The higher level of gloss can be seen. It might not be a mirror finish but I really couldn't be arsed going to a lot of trouble just to prove the point.
All this discussion about the make up of different paints making some unsuitable to be polished is irrelevant twaddle.
Proof of the pudding is in the eating.
And no I haven't photo-shopped it or made any corrections to it. Straight from the iPhone.
And just how long had this been left before you attempted this? With car paints, you can flat back and polish shortly after application. With household oil paints you'd be talking months - if ever.
Your idea of polishing something appears to be going from very very very rough to very very rough.
Try polishing it to a true mirror finish.
That some paint has come off on the cloth means you've used an abrasive. Same would happen with sand paper.
That does not prove is can be polished, all you've done it remove a tiny amount of paint which has improved the shine slightly.
To polish a traditional Linseed oil based paint you would have used pumice powder or cuttlefish bone as a slurry compound as this was used in various degrees of fineness to either flat or enhance a shine on an oil finish, think horse drawn carriages.
You CANNOT polish oil paint using modern car finishing compounds like T-cut or Farecla etc because they are too course a substance. Traditional oil paint can only be polished using Rottenstone or similar ultra fine polishing compounds (Liberol range for example) and even then you still polish the skin.
You could use modern wet-or-dry sand papers but this method is far less effective than the old fashioned methods used on oil paints.
Stephen.
Indeed, You can't polish oil straight away even Alkyd resin, it has to cure for several weeks first before is becomes hard enough.
Stephen.
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