So that's why all this puff about the 'hydrogen economy'

[Tim+]

You are so seriously out of date it?s laughable. Clearly not done any market research in years.

Tim

[charles]

The EV I was contemplating buyingbhad an advertised range of 235 miles. Real mileage 180.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Stra3w man. I never said you were.

If you enjoy

Because of government taxation, only...how soon before 'road electricity' is taxed by a 'smart meter' on your car?

It is not a matter of religion with others than you, it is a matter of common sense. Right now they work better for most people.

keep your ICE vehicles. I will thanks, for now.

[The Natural Philosopher]

no this was two months ago.

So now the sneers are happening I KNOW you are lying.

[The Natural Philosopher]

That was about what the ones I saw being tested did - tesla, I pace and something japanese. They ran them till they stopped.

I think my current car is reckoned to be 50mpg in 'official tests', in practice I am hard pressed to get over 35....

[Jethro_uk]

snipped-for-privacy@news.>>>>>> Roger Mills [e-mail] wrote:

Was it Tesla that had to eat their words after Top Gear proved their rubbish range ?

The fact that people have suddenly become as evangelical about electric vehicles as vegans is enough to ensure I don't waste a second of my life considering them.

[Jethro_uk]

In that case it is guaranteed to go wrong in every way it can.

These are the tossers that made it cheaper to cut supplies than to make electricity.

[Roger Mills]

Indeed. The fastest home charger is currently 22kW, and that requires a

3-phase supply - which few people have. Otherwise it's a maximum of around 7kW.

[Tim+]

There are other EVs available. Have a look at the Korean offering, the Kia Soul, eNiro and the Hyundai Kona with the 65kWh batteries. These have repeatedly been demonstrated to achieve their claimed range of 280 miles,

450 km.

For example.

Tim

[Tim+]

Thank you!! I?d be the first to admit the charging infrastructure is far from mature. The fewer people using it the better for me. ;-)

Seriously, I don?t give a toss what anyone else drives but it seems that many folk are scared of change and will invent reasons why EVs can?t possibly work. The fact is, they do. What?s more they?re so much nicer to drive (as you?ll find if you can ever pluck up the courage to test drive one) that you?ll find the ?issues? that seem so insurmountable from afar are in fact generally easy to overcome.

Yes, there are issues for folk without off street parking but if you have off street parking and your own charge point they make a lot of sense.

As I type, my car is 5 minutes walk away on a 7kW free charger. When did you last get free petrol or diesel?

Tim

[Tim+]

And yet you keep spreading yours...

Yes, claimed ranges are often works of fiction but there are many EVs capable of 200 miles.

Fast forward to the end for the results.

Kia are notable for being much closer to their claimed ranges than anyone else.

Tim

[Roger Mills]

That depends on battery size. If higher capacity batteries are developed which produce an acceptable range, 7kW my well not be enough.

I'm currently leading a study into the possibility of installing charge points in the remote garages belonging to the building of which my holiday flat is a part. The cost would be considerable due to the need to run cables about 50 metres underground. It's a nightmare trying to anticipate future requirements in order to make it as 'future proof' as possible.

[Tim Streater]

IMO, a pure EV car is not a good idea as the charging infrastructure is not there. For now, a car with a decent range and a small ICE only for charging would be the best solution as it would remove people's range-insecurity.

On-street parking is the reality for most people, due to someone's policy of insisting houses be built small, close together, and without garages.

Well that won't last will it.

[Jethro_uk]

You totally and utterly missed the suggestion that private motoring is in the throes of fundamental reappraisal despite all and every measure the vested interests might have in pretending otherwise.

I'm not imagining a world where 20,000,000 cars become batteried overnight. I am imagining a world where *because* of batteried cars and other developments, there will only be 1,000,000 cars.

Because just as the UK decides to dig up every pavement road and street to fit EV charging points galore, I'm thinking the first "smart" use of a car will be to get it to drive off and recharge itself at a local charging centre - possibly the car park of a big supermarket, which are my nearest EV charging points.

It's not smart cars *or* electric cars. It will be both.

[Tim+]

My car has a 65kWh battery and a real world range of 250-280 miles. In theory, about 10 hours to fully charge then. Okay, there are cars that have bigger batteries but how many people are likely to use all their range every day and not have enough time for 8- 12 hrs charging at home?

Yes, you can invent scenarios where you might struggle to fill a large battery fully every night at home but you?d have to be clocking up some serious mileage! In practice, 7kW for home charging is more than adequate. Based on a 3.5miles/kWh that my car easily achieves, that?s charging at a rate of about 25 miles range every hour.

Tim

[Tim+]

I didn?t miss it, I ignored it.

That may well be true in the long run but in the meantime and relatively short term, our government is pushing the shift to EVs.

So you would reduce congestion by not only having folk driving cars, but also having driverless cars filling the road?

You seem to want a different argument. Feel free to carry on without me. I was only trying t correct TNPs lies.

Tim

[Tim+]

I would agree that the charging infrastructure is immature and whilst that could be a major handicap to many people, there are many many people who can manage on home charging alone for the vast majority of their motoring. Just because it?s not a good idea for you doesn?t make them a bad idea for everybody. People are apt to forget that when you have your own ?fuel station? at home, you really don?t need other chargers that often if you buy a car with decent range.

I?ve done 3000 miles since the 1st of September and only plugged into public charges on a few occasions, none of which I *needed* to use, but as they were free it seemed churlish not to. ;-)

For now, a car with a decent range and a small ICE only for charging

Almost certainly not, but I until then, it?s a nice perk.

Tim

[The Natural Philosopher]

They have also been repeatedly demonstrated not to

[The Natural Philosopher]

but what is 'real world'

I get anywhere from 380 to 600 miles on a tank Assuming I will get 600 when I am on target for 450 is bad news

[Tim Streater]

It probably wouldn't be a bad solution for us, in fact. Plenty of room here for one of those full-size home chargers.