Servicing of domestic boilers

[Mark Carver]

Our 20 year old house has boiler, we've been there five years, I have zero knowledge of its history, but to date the boiler has never been serviced while we've lived there.

I know bugger all about gas boilers, all I do know is that it has a balanced flue (in and out air intakes are both fed directly out the back, and through the wall to the outside ?) I presume (perhaps incorrectly) the risk of Carbon Monoxide poisoning is minimal with this type ?

A few other questions, I assume it ought to have a service ?! What does this actually entail ? Does some Corgi registered chap come, look clever by removing the cover, but then simply vacuum out all the dead spiders, replace the cover and hand me an invoice for 200 quid ? Or should I just wait for the thing to fail, resting on the 'let sleeping dogs lie' philosophy, (bound to happen on Dec 24th at 18:00hrs of course !).

What should I be asking them to do, and how check they've actually performed the tasks requested, what should I be paying ?

Are these 'cover plans' worth the money? (I keep thinking of Dixons Group extended warranties, and bin the flyers that fall out of the gas bill etc).

[[news]]

that's about the size of it, yes. mostly it's a visual check and a 'pro' will use a gas analyser to check that the combustion is ok. £200 seems a bit steep for a thirty to forty minute job.

if it aint broke .....

depends, some companies my brother in law subs for invoice housing associations as little as £60 per boiler, some private landlords get invoiced £100+

will they cover a 20 year old boiler ?

RT

[Mark Carver]

[snip]

Yes good point ! which raises another question. I've read in here about new houses having to have combi-boilers fitted since April 1st 2005 ? What is the position for the replacement of boilers in existing dwellings ?

[RedOnRed]

Our boiler is 28 years old and is still covered by British Gas. Who in actual fact only came out last week to fix it. They attended within 3 hours, which was quite good.

Service contract wise, British Gas will/should only take the boiler on if there are sufficient parts still available for key repairs on it.

You really should have the boiler checked over yearly, especially for a boiler your age. As News has already said, they do check the combustion which is an indication for any carbon monoxide problems.

[Tony Bryer]

Basically you are required to install a condensing boiler except where doing so is judged to be impracticable. Full documents are at

[[news]]

it's just as easy to DIY. pop the combustion chamber off and hoover it out. you may need to take the burner assembly off and hoover that, too. you might also need to wire brush the burner assembly, iirc, and if there's any yellowing of the flame, call someone in, if the flames are nice and blue then GENERALLY SPEAKING*, there's nothing to worry about.

I did mine with corgi/acops/acs,part P, ect, etc, brother in law stood next to me telling me what to do which makes it completely legal.

worst problem I had was that the 'U' nuts holding the combustion lid on had become brittle due to years of heat/cool and they snapped so I replaced them with stainless nuts and bolts with spring washers.

RT

*anti pedant device

[Mogweed]

We have the British Gas 3-star central heating cover for our back-boiler type system and I think it's marvellous. Once a year they come to service the boiler which includes hoovering out dead spiders, combustion check, some other checks (don't know what) for which they used some fancy digital electronic testers, they light a small smoke-bomb type thingy then go outside to watch it come out of the chimney to (presumably) make sure the air is drawing and the flue doing what it should, and they do other things as well.

The whole central heating system is covered for breakdowns, not just the boiler but the rads, pipework and timer/programmers etc., as well. And because ours is a back boiler, they cover the fire front too. Over the years we've had two timer/programmers go, a leaky rad (which we discovered on Boxing Day at about 6 o'clock in the evening when we had friends coming round at 7.30), a faulty pump, and the glass on the fire front went cloudy which was my fault because I hadn't cleaned it properly but they changed it for us anyway at service time.

We've never had to wait longer than 3 hours before they've turned up and all repairs/replacements are free of charge, both parts and labour. And all for about £15 a month.

Well worth every penny in my opinion for the peace of mind it gives.

Mogweed.

[[news]]

£15 / month ? sheesh. I didn't realise it was that inexpensive.

RT

[Peter Andrews]

£15 per month = £180 PA = £1800 each ten years (plus 'inflation rises') - put the £15 in the bank and with luck it will pay for a replacement boiler every 15 years.

Peter

[David Hearn]

How many years have you had that going? At £15 a month, you're burning £180 a year - over 10 years you can afford to buy and fit a new boiler almost at British Gas prices (or by 5 years, buy it and fit it yourself!!). The digital electronic tester is probably a flue gas analyser - just stick it in the flue and read the reading. Smoke bombs are about 50p each

. 2 timers/programmers - £40 each? Leaky rad - did they replace it or just stop it leaking? A pump is about £50. Labour would be extra. If these were over a year or so, not bad. If this was over a 10 year period - BG are laughing.

I'm sure some people are very happy with paying insurance for everything - however, it seems more and more things are being covered by insurances. You can insure your water pipework for just £X a month - so if you get a leak outside your house, they'll fix it for you. I've even seen ones for the gas pipework inside your house! If you took out all these insurances, you'll be broke!

Insurances are sold because the seller can make large profits if the product they sell is targeted/designed properly, and more and more types of insurance for these kinds of things are being sold over the last few years. Doesn't take a genius to see how BG (not the Centrica group, just BG) has managed to come from being loss making in 2001, up to making a profit of nearly £350m (up 64% from previous year) - although part of this was down to increasing their prices.

David

[RedOnRed]

If you took out all these insurances, you'll be

You can apply your views on emergency breakdown insurance to many other things like the AA and RAC etc, etc.

It's all well and good aiming to fix it yourself but when it's mid-week in the middle of the winter, sub zero, you've got a young family and need to go to work - it's not always possible for Joe Bloggs to go fixing things.

You then find that all the decent, reasonably priced plumbers are booked up for the next few months which leaves you with the extorniate ones which charge a call-out and by the hour.

For those of us that are lucky enough to be able to afford central heating cover and a new boiler as well...it's a very good service.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Why should you need insurance cover with a new boiler?

IMHO it may be a 'good' service for those with no DIY skills. For others it may just be a waste of money.

I installed my own system and am capable of fixing anything that goes wrong - at far less cost than any service contract.

[Mogweed]

Exactly! Peace of mind is what I pay for and it's what I get. Like I said in my original post, we discovered a leaky rad at about 6.00pm on Boxing Day with friends coming round at 7.30. One phone call and about an hour later the guy from BG came out and had to replace the valve. Not a huge job and one that I could have done myself - IF i'd had a spare valve in the garage or IF somewhere like B&Q had been open, IF it wasn't Boxing Day and IF we didn't have friends coming round.

I'll continue to pay and have piece of mind :o)

Mogweed.

[[news]]

hmmm, my mileage varied. since obtaining my boiler 10 years ago I spent nothing on it. then, in the space of 2 months, I spent £180 odd on one part and £160 ish on another (forget which order - diverter valve and gas valve)

both parts failed sufficiently far apart enough to not warrant a new boiler which I could have (then) picked up for about £380 and hung + commision in a day.

to your average punter, sans skills, sans gas service engineer brother in law on callout (to us) 24/7, sans internet skills to track down possibly the last gas vavle in the country for this particular boiler, it's not a bad deal, IME

RT

[Doctor Evil]

A bill for £180, for part only, on a 10 year old boiler when a new one would cost £380, would have had me buying the new one, with a guarantee too.

Well It appears you will have at least another 10 years from this boiler.

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[John Rumm]

No, condensing boilers - not combi.

A condensing boiler is one designed to extract more energy from the fuel used. A combi is one designed to provide "instantaneous" hot water with no need for a storage cylinder etc. All common types of boiler can be condensing.

Same, all new boilers need to have a minimum efficiency of 86% or better. This effectively means you need a condensing boiler. There are a few exceptions - but in most cases they won't apply.

[Mark Carver]

You see, I said I knew bugger all :-)

OK, I looked at Mr Prescott's web site so I've started climbing the learning curve.

Is there a good idiot's guide to boilers and how they work, on the web ?

Thanks also to those who have answered regarding service cover.

I hate plumbing, and I'm nervous about gas generally, so I might well lean towards the 'piece of mind' camp :-) !!

[Pete C]

Hi,

Make sure BG can source all spares for the boiler, otherwise their method of repair might be to quote (expensively!) for a replacement.

I expect they're very happy to 'cover' boilers like this, especially with their rates for replacement...

cheers, Pete.

[John Rumm]

Learning curve certainly... although reading stuff from Prescott will often have the curve going in the wrong direction! ;-)

How about our FAQ:

Ed's sealed system FAQ:

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Well, you've saved 15 x 12 x 10 - so 1800 quid + interest. So 350 sounds somewhat of a bargain.

And a maintenance contract doesn't pay for a new boiler.

It might well make sense for the average clueless punter. But this is a DIY group.