Retrofitting to latest wiring regs

[nemo]

The managing agent for our rental property called in an electrician to replace a socket in the bedroom of a property. We were asked if we wanted a new consumer unit fitting at the same time, which we declined.

We've just received an email from the agent: "I?ve just spoken to the electrician and he has informed me that new regulations state he is not allowed to do new work at a property where there is no RCD consumer box fitted. In this case he has done the work because it was an emergency[1] but if any further work is needed in the future a box will have to be fitted at the same time."

The property was built in 2001 by a reputable national building firm, so the wiring and CU are not ancient, albeit probably not to 17th edition regs.

AIUI retrofitting to meet later regulations is not mandatory for repairs to an existing installation (IIRC it was mentioned here recently re new CU specs in 2015). a) Is that correct? b) If so, please can anyone point to a web link or document reference for an authoritative statement of this? c) Is replacement of the CU necessary/desirable - if so, for what reason?

[1] No it wasn't actually an emergency!

[Andrew Gabriel]

Yes.

No. You would need to ask him where he thinks it says this is necessary.

Well, it is desirable to have RCD protection on the power sockets.

Most managing agents get back-handers from the tradesmen they use, to maximise their work. That's almost certainly what's happening here. You might think they are working for you, but it's a horribly corrupt profession.

[A.Lee]

He is talking bollocks.

Then it most probably should have some RCD protected circuits, but there are 1000's that didnt bother.

Yes, but bonding and earthing should be up to spec.

No idea

Necessary - probably not. Desirable - probably yes. For the protection of the User. 99.9+% of people will survive a shock from a RCD protected outlet.

Any new socket outlets (that is new, not replacement) must have RCD protection (except for a very small of exceptions). Any socket outlet that is likely to be used for outdoor equipment should be RCD protected - that's been around since the 16th Edition, so any downstairs sockets that may be used for outdoor use should be RCD protected. That can be a RCD s/o or a RCD CU.

[Tim Watts]

You should be able to swap the main isolator in the CU with a 100A RCD for very little effort.

What's the make of the CU?

[ARW]

The simple answer is that an electrician (or any competent person) can legally swap the bedroom socket even if there in no RCD protection.

Unless this is a first or higher floor apartment then it would be advisable to fit RCD protection of some sort for any sockets that could power outdoor equipment. This need not require a CU swap.

If the install meets the 2001 16th edition regs then I would not swap the CU.

[ARW]

You could but it would be agaiinst regs 314.1 (i) and (iv)

[meow2222]

So use another electrician that's happy to do the work, instead of trying to steam you

NT

[Tim Watts]

True -

I was thinking more naively that this would be a step up from no RCD without much expense. Not ideal and as you say, not compliant to current regs. But better than doing nothing due to lack of funds IMO - though it is debatable. Me - I'd prefer RCD protection with the risk of all the lights going out, as I have kids. However, if the house was occupied by an infirm person, lights going out might take precedence.

Given a full CU change or a new installation, all RCBOs is the right answer :)

[nemo]

That's what I was anticipating, just wanted to check my facts.

I'm also concerned that the agent just relays whatever the tradesman says, without question. Granted the property is not getting any younger, but we seem to incur an awful lot of maintenance and replacement costs these days...

[Graham.]

Perhaps it's time to remind the agent that he's not the only show in town.

[Graham.]

Yes, but metal clad or plastic CU?

[Adrian]

OP - is self-management feasible? Just use agents for finding new tenants, for a fixed fee, then do everything directly.

[Graham.]

In the case of the properties that members of my family rent out professional management has been very worthwhile.

In one case, the only significant defect the tenant has reported is when a squirrel chewed through the electric shower cable in the loft.

I was worried about the central heating, no thermostatic rad valves and an old Glow-worm Hideaway cast iron lump of a boiler, but no complaints so far.

Tenants are Polish, could that somehow explain it :-)

[spuorgelgoog]

You could be cunning and take this remark at face value, allow the new CU to be fitted, then claim all the costs back from the agent and/or electrician as they misled you and carried out unnecessary work.

Mentioning Trading Standards, Watchdog, Rogue Traders, etc as appropriate.

Owain

[Fredxxx]

I would ask for a written report before embarking on anything as risky as that!

[nemo]

Don't really want the hassle of self-managing. We were quite happy with the agent until this year. There have been a few drop-offs in other aspects as well recently: couple of late statements, mistakes in statements, slow response to emails etc. Perhaps a change of staff in the office is the cause, maybe under-staffing, who knows.

I'll have a chat with the boss to express my concerns and see if things improve. If not, maybe it's time to shop around, which would be a shame after 10 years.

[John Rumm]

Mostly...

Any new work done must be to current standards, but existing stuff can be left alone if it was compliant with the standards of the day.

However it can get complicated...

For example, extending a circuit where the cable will not be protected by earthed metallic shielding or by burial at >= 50mm from the surface, would now require RCD protection for the new cable run. So even though there is no requirement to fit a RCD for the rest of the circuit, there is for this bit. Hence the simplest way would normally be to replace its MCB with a RCBO.

Adding a socket to a circuit again would be caught since all sockets must have additional protection - not just those likely to feed appliances outside.

Making any alteration to a system requires that the main equipotential bonding be in place and to modern standards - so if that were missing, it may require additional not directly related work to be done.

Adding a light to an unearthed lighting circuit can't easily be done either.

CU replacement may not be *necessary* there are other ways of introducing a RCD (e.g. separate enclosure for that circuit, or using a RCBO etc. Possibly just moving a circuit from one "side" of a CU to the other).

It may be desirable, for various reasons though...

[PeterC]

Looks as if it was a cut-price job. The Council rewired these houses in the early '90s (16th, Regs?) and the CU has an incoming 100mA RCD with a 30mA RCD to the more hazardous circuits. Does give some protection agains fault in the rings tripping the lights.

[John Rumm]

It sounds like you probably have a TT earthing system. That has extra RCD protection requirements anyway.

[PeterC]

It might have been before the re-wire (ICR after 20-odd years) but it's now PME. The inspector got out another van and a cherry picker to make it PME and then found out that it already was!