i want to start work on my bathroom this week, so did some investigating today and found:
15mm cold water pipe from concrete floor, to a splitter, one way to the WC the other way to the shower via a isolating tap
15mm hot water pipe from floor (drain c*ck(?) at the bottom), splits to the sink hot tap and the shower hot feed
15mm cold water pipe from floor straight to sink cold tap
22mm cold water pipe from floor straight to bath cold tap
15mm hot water pipe from floor straight to bath hot tap
the only tap / isolating valve is on the cold shower feed
is it good practice to install isolating valves on all incoming pipes? would this mean i could then shut the supply off and remove each thing one at a time?
for your info everything is mains fed via a combi condensing boiler, i have a stop c*ck just before the boiler.
really appreciate any help, i am reasonably competent at DIY once i know the correct way of doing something!
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 08:17:31 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost wrote this:-
More commonly called a tee.
One near each fitting is very useful and mandatory in many circumstances. You turn off the mains once and install the valves in each existing pipes. With luck/skill when you turn the mains back on there will be no leaks. Having done this you can then work on each fitting one by one, without the howls of protest that accompany turning all the water off. Then if anything goes wrong only one fitting is out of action at any time.
If the toilet is the only one in the house this is the critical item. However, toilets can be flushed with bowls of water so it need not be out of action for too long. Remember you can remove the old cistern and flush the old toilet with a bowl until ready for the big operation.
As long as one of the bath and basin is in use at any one time people can wash their hands.
If the shower is over the bath then remove the shower first then work on the bath, then put the shower back. people can always have a bath until the shower is restored.
thanks for that excellent post David, I feel pretty confident now about giving it a go. Ready to get stuck in. Just one thing, where a pipe has a tee going to 2 different places (such as a shower tap and a sink tap), would you fit the isolation valve before or after the tee? IE just one valve to isolate both taps or one on each?
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:16:12 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost wrote this:-
The answer is, it depends. If there is a possibility of one item being out of action for a long time then it is better to fit two. An example would be a pipe going to a toilet and bath. It is as well to fit two in those circumstances so that the bath can be worked on long term while the toilet remains in use. The sort of place where I might only fit one would be to a pipe feeding say two basins side by side, or a cold pipe feeding a toilet and basin in a cloakroom, but these cases are rare. If I was working on a bathroom I would certainly fit an isolator to every pipe, so I could turn off the minimum number of fittings while working on one.
A 15mm pipe feeding a toilet and shower is not something I would install. When the toilet is flushed the shower will suffer cold water starvation. Someone using the shower is then relying on the thermostatic gubbins inside the shower reacting fast enough to prevent scalding. Not a risk I would take.
Best to take the cold to the shower from the cold pipe just before it goes into the water heater, or if this would be difficult then second best is a pipe direct from the rising main to the shower with no branches. The first stops toilet flushes causing water starvation, the second minimises water starvation. Note that if there is a pressure reducer on the cold pipe into the heater then there needs to be one on the pipe in the second option, set to the same pressure, as showers should be fed water at nominally equal pressures. Note also that if the mains pressure could damage the shower then a pressure relief valve should be installed on this new pipe too.
Mains pressure water systems eliminate something which is out of the way and causes little trouble if installed and maintained properly, storage tank(s), and replaces them with a variety of bits and pieces located inside the occupied part of a building, some of which should be piped to the outside. I have never seen the attraction myself. I suspect that many people, probably through ignorance, ignore the bits and pieces (which are there to take the place of the safety function provided by the vent in a gravity fed system).
Thanks for the tips David. A plumber fitted the shower and did all the fittings, 2 years later I've only just had a look at all the pipes to notice the shower and WC share the same cold feed!
Its a small bathroom and is highly unlikely there would be 2 people in there at the same time, especially one having a shower and the other on the toilet! So I think I'll leave it as it is.
One last question before I get stuck in, the Isolating valves, when I fit them can I run flexible pipes from these new valves straight to the taps / wc? Or can I only use whatever length flexible hose that comes with the new tapes and connect these to a copper pipe? Just wondering what position to fit the valves, should it be as close as possible to the taps and wc?
Ah one last question, this is what the pipes to the shower look like:
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'm gonna remove all the tiles there do you think i could chisel into the wall and put these shower tubes into the wall? As it is as the moment I wouldnt be able to fit my new shower screen to the new bath. If you can advise on this issue that would be great!
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 13:32:58 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost wrote this:-
You will probably only discover what, if any, flexible connectors come with the fittings when they arrive. They don't look pretty and I tend to avoid using them unless it is necessary. Since you probably don't know the lengths of any flexible pipes I suggest putting the valves reasonably near the floor, though not tight against it. You can then cut whatever length of pipe is necessary to get in the right place for the flexible pipe.
While you are doing the work it is a good time to check the electrical bonding arrangements in the bathroom.
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 13:38:41 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be benpost wrote this:-
Concealed pipes are better in most respects. It would probably be best to run the pipes to below the top of the bath before they pop out of the wall.
Copper pipe should be wrapped in tape or insulation before being buried, to stop cement attacking the copper. If you are using plastic pipe then this precaution is not necessary.
Thanks David, They are plastic pipes although If I am routing them in the wall they will need to be longer. I'm sure I can get longer plastic pipes though?!
I've just noticed in screwfix they do isolating valves with a tap connector on one end. If I'm thinking correctly then that sounds like a good idea?
Each to his own I suppose - I think flexies are great; they certainly save a lot of time getting the pipework lined up accurately with the taps and for someone relatively inexperienced at plumbing they'd be a massive time saver. Agreed that they aren't particularly pretty, however I only use short lengths, and they are always hidden away from view eg under the sink.
I tend not to use flexies with integral valves just because invariably I'll have fitted the pipework earlier on, including standard valves, and don't worry about exactly what's going downstream of the valve (ie, height of pipework etc) until finally fitting the sink/toilet or whatever. Also, I buy cheapo multipacks of the valves from Screwfix so their cost is trivial; flexies with integral valves are relatively expensive. No reason in principle not to use them though.
You won't be able to run a flexy direct from a separate isolation valve as both are designed to connect to pipework; there'll need to be at least a short length between them. Doesn't matter a jot where you position the isolation valve along the pipe - just make sure you'll be able to get a screwdriver tip to it once the bathroom's finished; and it probably wants to be out of obvious view.
I was guessing he's an employee of truerooms/taps4less/DIY Trader Ltd who doesn't realise he's trashing his business by showing how dishonest the staff are. Alternatively, he's a very disgruntled customer who's deliberately trashing the business, presumably due to a bad experience with them. Doesn't matter much which, the effect is the same - a company which is now blacklisted by many who might otherwise have used it.
i've removed the sink and cistern and fitted the iso valves. didnt realise i would need 2 spanners so have currently just tightened as much as poss with the one spanner. turned mains back on and no leaks, one valve was sort of making a spitting noise but no water was escaping, but that stopped a few mins after.
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