Replace old fluorescent tube with brighter?

I am in the UK.

I have an old 13 watt linear fluorescent lamp (20 inch long) which is not really bright enough for my needs.

Can I replace the tube with a tube of a different technology so it is brighter?

Reply to
Susan P
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Get yourself a triphosphor tube, these have higher output than the older halophosphates. And output falls over time with halos, and dirt does have quite an effect. Hopefully between those 3 you'll get enough light again. If not, step up to a 2' fitting or a 23w cfl..

Note about tubes: there are good and bad. You'll want anything from

2700K to 3500K, I would not buy anything higher, such as 4500K.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

If the lamp is really old, then a new replacement lamp (bulb) may help. Fluorescent lamps lose some light output with time, and if the lamp is very old (or was really cheap) a new lamp may be more efficient and give you more light.

And, not to be insulting, but the next most common cause of loss of light output is dirt. You don't say if the fixture is open or closed, or if there is any cover over the lamp, but dirt can cause more light loss than you might think.

If those two things don't do enough, then you'll probably need to get a different fixture. Re-wiring an existing unit to take a different lamp can be done, but it's really for people with experience, or who like to tinker and don't mind if they spend more to make the change than to buy a new lamp.

Reply to
Bart Z. Lederman

In message , Susan P writes

If the tube has been in use a while then it may be fairly dim anyway. In this case a new tube could be much brighter.

There are certainly some good quality tubes with high efficiency phosphors available. I'm not sure how available they are for the older

13W 21"(?) tube.
Reply to
Clive Mitchell

Reply to
artiemorty

I am in the UK.

In my kitchen I have a five foot tube (1.5 inches diameter) marked Philips F65W/35 which has been there for about 15 years.

Can a triposphor tube simply be put in where this old style (halophosphate?) tube has been?

What about the need for improved things I hear about like electronic balasts and quick start devices. My old fitting seems unlikely to have any of those.

Rather than upgrade the tube and perhaps have to change components would it be a whole lot better to get a new triphospor tube and fitting? I hear that T8 may be the best value.

------

If so then where can I get such a thing from as the DIY shops I have tried (Focus, Homebase, local shops) don't seem to stock anything marked "triphosphor". Are they usually marked like that?

Reply to
Alex

yes

theres no need for any of those

If your fitting works ok theres no need to replace it. If you do, and you pick an electronic one, you'll get:

- an unnoticeably small light output increase

- no flicker & flash during starting

- longer tube life, which given the cost of tubes now is of small value.

- lower reliability and shorter fitting life

- less money left in your pocket

- some unnecessary extra work to do

NT

Reply to
meow2222

I passed on your message the first time around since I didn't have data on UK lamps handy. However, I don't want you to have only the advice of an anonymous person who goes by the dual names of meow2222 and NT.

If the F65W/35 is a has a diameter of 1.5 inches (T12) and a length of 5 feet, yes, there is a triphosphor version available. However, it is most likely more expensive than an equivalent T8 lamp.

An electronic ballast will reduce energy consumption, reduce lamp flicker and increase lamp life. Moving to T8 would probably provide the best value - I know it would in the US but I don't have as much information about the UK market.

The lamps are not marked triphosphor. They use have a three number color code such as 835 for a CRI in the 80's and a CCT of 3500. To make sure it is a triphosphor lamp you will have to check the lamp manufacturer's on line catalog.

Reply to
Victor Roberts

Yes, providing it has switch-start control gear (i.e. a plug-in starter and the tube flashes a few times when switched on). The tube will operate with some other types of control gear, but at the wrong power rating, which may or may not matter. A T8 58W tube is designed to run on a ballast for a T12 65W tube. So, in theory you should check the fitting has a 65W ballast rather than an 80W ballast. (5' fittings were originally 80W in the UK, but were reduced to 65W around 1970, although 5' T12 tubes remained dual rated 65/80W for a further 10 years. If the fitting is only 15 years old, it should be a 65W ballast.)

Depends on the starting style of the electronic one and the average time you have the tube on each time. Switch-start will give longer life than electronic instant start (at least in the UK, although this seems not to be true in the US on 120V mains where switch-start doesn't work too well). Electronic pre-heat might give slightly longer life than switch-start, but I've never seen any real-life evidence of this.

Note that it is very difficult to tell in advance if an electronic ballast is instant start or preheat from any markings on it. Unfortunately, the term "instant start" in Europe is increasingly used to refer to any type of electronic ballast, including those which don't start instantly.

Also note that the US uses the same control gear names to mean completely different types of control gear. I have stuck to the UK/European names here, which means this posting probably looks like complete garbage to a US reader in sci.engr.lighting.

- significantly reduced choice of fittings

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

When I switch on the tube glows orange at each end for about a full second and then the whole tube lights up.

Is this as good as the "few flashes" you write?

My fluorescent fitting has a 65W choke. (This is a ballast, it it?).

The lettering on the choke is truly ancient looking and I think it says Thorn in the letters around a logo. The whole thing is about 5 inches long. Hope fully this is ok.

Out of interest what is the difference if this was rated at 80W and the T8 58W tube you mentioned was used?

Reply to
Alex

Hey, I thought that an electronic light fitting for a fluorescent was the smart modern smart thing to get. You make it sound like a backward step!

What am I misunderstanding?

Is there no real advantage to an electronic fitting (electronic starter and ballast) other than instant-on and a slightly longer tube life?

Reply to
Alex

I'm rather surprised about your comments re: switch-start lamp life in the UK. Major manufacturers are now advertising fluorescent lamps with rated lives of 30,000 hours and greater when operated on programmed rapid start ballasts using the 3-hour on and 20-minute off cycle. Can a switch-start lamp in the UK really come close to that same life with the same operating cycle?

Reply to
Victor Roberts

Victor, I guess you differ and are saying that you feel the value of an electronic fitting is greater than posted by meow2222/NT.

Against that the other poster lists that lower reliability and shorter fitting life is a disadvantage and so is the extra cost of the unit plus the cost/effort of installing it.

I sense that you feel that reduced energy consumption, reduced lamp flicker and increased lamp life outweigh the disadvantages.

Would I be right in getting the impression that, very broadly speaking, it is a close call as to whether the pros outweigh the cons or vice versa?

Reply to
Alex

In message , Victor Roberts writes

The early instant starting ballast's in the UK really hammered the electrodes. It's not the same now.

Reply to
Clive Mitchell

In message , Alex writes

A lot of the guys and gals on this list are veterans of the lighting industry. We had our fingers well and truly burned with the early electronic ballasts which had a fairly short life due to thermal issues. The modern units with more rugged, higher temperature rated components and wiser design don't have so many issues. (Unless you get the cheapo ones.)

I think we can safely say. "Once bitten twice shy" applies.

Reply to
Clive Mitchell

The differences are simply too small imho for it to be worth replacing one for the other in a domestic situation. And as said, the differences are not all pros, theyre a mix.

Since you've already got a nice thermal starter setup (or perhaps something else that doesnt flash during start), you wouldnt gain the usual one most visible advantage of going to electronic, the elimination of flashing during starting, which one gets with most UK glowstart fittings.

This is a bit like arguing over whether to pick white or bright white or snow white paint. If there are differences theyre very small, and life has much bigger fish.

NT

PS not sure what my name has to do with anything :)

Reply to
meow2222

sounds like an old thermal starter unit. They have much nicer starting characteristics than modern glowstarts.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Not in a 15 year old fitting. You'd need a >45 year old fitting which would also have B22d (bayonet cap) connections on the tube ends ;-)

Might well be an electronic starter.

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

nothing afaics.

Newness Disease might come into it a bit though, the widespread incorrect belief that technological progress is 10x as fast as it really is, and that all things newer are better. Electronics does progress, but not nearly as fast as adveritising hype, and the progress does not always imply modern goods are any better, though it does make them cheaper to buy.

It does matter if youre equipping a whole showroom or retail complex, as a few percent on energy consumption can add up, but for domestic use its immaterial, and the energy involved in getting and fitting a replacement would far outweigh the tiny savings.

There is also Victor's point about flicker, but really if a light is flickering noticeably its replacement time anyway, so its not such an issue in practice. It is in large lighting installations though, where faulty fittings are liable to be left running. But as long as its working ok, there isnt a problem.

Finally, some tronic ballasts are good and reliable, some arent, but since you cant tell which is which easily, youre buying a reliability issue if you get one. An old fitting of any type has higher initial reliability, plus has proven itself.

I hope you spend your diy time solving some real problems and not playing musical light swaps, as it wont really get you anything noticeable or worthwhile, other than more chance of fitting failure.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

Unless stroboscopic effects in connection with rotating machinery are a problem.

Reply to
Andy Wade

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