Rant - buying a new car bureaucracy....

[Eusebius]

OK - I haven't bought a new car for 15 years and the last one was from a dealer. So call me ignorant this time round. I want to buy off eBay or other source of a private owner to get a much better deal. So I phone my AA insurance company to get a specimen quote on a likely purchase of a 2008-ish Fabia, Astra, Focus or Octavia. This turns out to be impossible. No quote without a registration number, not even by giving them the insurance band. "Ball park figure"? No way. I give the very robotic operative four number plates from likely eBay ads and she can't give me a quote on any - they all "have to be referred". I ask why but no explanation.

Knowing that every year I go through a ridiculous routine with the AA of them quoting me £200 too much and then me beating them down £200, I need some idea of what I'm getting. I ask what refund I get from ending my £225 insurance 2 months early and the answer is £21. Is that one sixth of £225? You do the maths. So I have to insure whatever car I buy before driving it away, and right now it pays to transfer my insurance, but I can't get a quote for that. The way I feel right now I'll leave my AA insurance run until it expires and then look around for other quotes. Are all insurance companies as unhelpful as this?

Can anyone give me more general advice about how to buy a car from a private owner and dispose of my present car? I've done the usual research on the Internet but it clearly requires some clever timing to make all the loose ends work.

[newshound]

Agreed, the new regs with no tax transfer also add to the aggravation.

I use a broker which at least makes it possible to talk to someone face to face. But IIRC last time I insured the new thing and then got a refund on the old one.

I'm also going to get NFU to quote for my next car renewals, seeing as how helpful they have been for my horsebox, buildings, and contents insurance.

[TimW]

I was hearing about someone who was buying a car and doing the paperwork in the showroom. The Salesman was asking him to sign various T&C and GDPO stuff and at the bottom of it (it had been printed off from the internet) was the 'I am not a robot' declaration. He queried it and was told he had to sign it. After all you can't be too careful these days.

TW

[F]

Not answering your question, but are you aware that road tax doesn't transfer with the car?

[Steve Walker]

Hmmm. Unless things have changed very recently, most insurance websites ask if you know the reg and are happy to give you a quote without. With is obviously more accurate, as they can pull up the exact car complete with options that may have been specified when first purchased.

SteveW

[F]

That's my experience too.

[Bob Eager]

Same here. I was able to get a quote before they'd allocated a number to my new car.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

When I was considering buying a very different car from my usual a couple of years ago I simply phoned up my insurance company and asked them how much extra it was going to cost for the remainder of the policy. Just gave them the model and year and approximate coast, as I'd not decided which actual car of several I was going to buy.

[alan_m]

I found when changing my car there was a one off cost from the insurance company to change the car plus an amount extra for the new (one year old) car. As an existing customer I'm sure they just made up an arbitrary amount for the extra to charge for the insurance as, including the one off fee, the amount was exactly £100.

When it came to renewal the quote comparison for the previous year included the one off fee for changing the car so the renewal figure appeared to be a bit more reasonable with regards the price hike. Having accepted their original quote of £100 more for changing the car I'm sure that the insurance company now thinks that the customer will accept higher premiums. Needless to say for renewal I just went to one of the price comparison sites and found the equivalent insurance from a number of well known companies/brokers to be around 30% cheaper.

When changing cars many insurance companies will have a one off fee for changing details but this may be a lot cheaper than the fees/costs associated with cancelling an existing insurance.

I did buy my car from a dealer and the tax was paid on-line within a matter of minutes and the change to the insurance over the phone, again in matter of minutes. The outstanding tax on the old car was automatically refunded triggered by the receipt of the change of ownership/scrapping documentation which can also be on-line.

If buying privately it may be worth identifying what can be achieved on line on a laptop/smartphone.

Don't forget to check for outstanding finance arrangements on the car (HPI Check).

[harry]

+1 If you go on internet comparison sites. Eg "Go Compare".

[Chris Green]

Not needed for a private purchase.

I've been through this 'discussion' several times before. The law was changed many years ago (in the 70s??) so that private buyers of a vehicle (it's specifically vehicles) *do* end up owning the vehicle they have bought even if there is unpaid HP on it.

The 'HPI Check' that is touted around is just a way of getting some more money out of us.

A web search will turn up several government and local government sites confirming this (though it often takes a while to find the details).

[Scott]

Whilst true that the purchaser acting in good faith acquires title to the vehicle, there remains the prospect of an argument and/or court case if the situation arises. The prudent approach would be to avoid such an argument in the first place.

[Robin]

While not necessary an HPI check may still be worthwhile.

First, while what you say about a car subject to finance is true, it can be a bit of a pain to sort out. (And AIUI there's some risk that you turn out not to have good title if you bought from someone who'd bought it knowing it was on finance).

Second, an HPI check also reveals insurance write-offs. (And I wonder if the OP's problem with insurance quotes was that the registrations he took from eBay were from cars written off and repaired.)

[Michael Chare]

Two years ago I got a quote for a new car which I did not have from Direct Line.

[Chris Green]

Has there ever been a case? I somehow doubt it as the HP/finance company will know only too well that they don't have a case against the [new] owner. They have to act against the person/business who used their finance (which seems only reasonable anyway!).

[Theo]

There's a trick to find that out for free. You go through the process of listing the car to *sell* on Autotrader. In one of the later steps (before you insert money, obviously) it'll show a preview of the advert which also shows whether it's been a write-off.

Theo

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Mine (More Than) only charged the administrative fee - £25. Both cars had similar sized/power engines.

At renewal time, the premium did go up slightly. But still pretty competitive on the 'compare' sites, so I stuck with them. At the last renewal (different more powerful model of the same car) none of the comparison sites got even close. Except for the odd never heard of company. Dunno if it's the car or my age but the days of finding markedly cheaper insurance each year seem to have gone.

Yes- they'll get you one way or another.

My dealer (used one make specialist) did all the paperwork while I waited including a reg number transfer. Very impressive - but then they weren't the cheapest around.

[Scott]

Don't know but I go for the 'Hope for the best, prepare for the worst' approach.

[Robin]

Well here's one which went all the way to the House of Lords:

Shogun Finance Ltd v. Hudson [2003] UKHL 62

Hudson v Shogun Finance Ltd. [2001] EWCA Civ 1000

Admittedly that involved more than a simple car subject to finance but that didn't prevent the buyer being taken first to the County Court and then on and on. (I assume with insurance for the legal costs.)

"The crucial issue is whether Norman Hudson, who bought a Mitsubishi Shogun SWB motor car from a crook who promptly disappeared, can bring himself within section 27 of the Hire-Purchase Act 1964. Mr Hudson was a private purchaser who bought the vehicle in good faith. His right to retain this vehicle depends upon whether he can establish that the crook acquired possession of the vehicle under the written hire-purchase agreement which on its face was made between the finance company, Shogun Finance Ltd, and a Mr Durlabh Patel. When signing this agreement the crook pretended to be Mr Durlabh Patel, living at an address in Leicester. As proof of his identity the crook produced Mr Patel's driving licence which he had obtained improperly. The finance company checked Mr Patel's credit rating. Finding this to be satisfactory the finance company instructed the motor dealer who had been dealing with the crook to let the crook have the car. Mr Patel knew nothing about any of these goings on."

[The Other Mike]

Section 27 of the Hire Purchase Act (1964) ?

Mentioned here

Not sure if they still exist but 'logbook loans' also potentially exposed any buyer to the vehicle being seized to repay the debt.

There also might be a problem with buying one that someone has on Personal Contract Purchase.

--