Pilot lights keep going out (Worcester)

[Nick]

I have a Worcester combi boiler which is about 11 years old. It is under contract with B Gas. Recently it started blowing pilot out.

What happens is that if you turn on the hot water (tap or hot water) its works ok for about 5 mins and then there is a clicking noise and pilot and flames blow out. I then have to light the pilot by firing the button 5-7 times. It will work again for about 4-5 mins and same happens again - clicking noise, flames/pilot go out. This happens consistently on hot water. If we use the central heating then it may blow out 1 or 2 times in evening.

I have called out Bgas 3 times and they have not been able to fix it. They have changed a thermostat and then a sensor but without luck. They are now saying that the boiler is too old and needs replacing. And CH also needs a power flush to get rid of debris. They say there is no other remedy.

Now if there was debris that was causing the tripping then I would expect this to happen more on the CH side rather then the hot water. I would also expect the tripping to be random rather than consistent.

I am totally unhappy with B Gas being unable to find the fault and telling me to replace boiler. Yes the boiler is old but it has had about 60-70% of the components replaced in the last 2-3 years. I am paying them 16.75GBP per month and I think they are not putting in the effort to find the real fault.

One of the things I have noticed is that when we used the hot water before, it used to get really hot after 4-5 mins and it used to go into a rest mode and started up again after a minute or so. Its not doing that - it just trips now. I told that to the B Gas engineer and he repleced the sensor but it has not made any difference. Is it possible that the internal is not receiving enough air (fan maybe faulty)?

I think there must be another reason for all this other than the debris.

Can you please give me some advice/pointers as I am going to call out B Gas for the last time.

[John Stumbles]

I don't know this model of boiler but I'd suspect that the boiler may have an overheat cutout which cuts out the pilot. If so I'd be looking at either the sensor (too sensitive) or the circulation: pump, sludge in system etc.

[Dave Baker]

Assuming it has one and I'm going by similar symptoms on another boiler it sounds like the DHW flow switch sticking and causing an overheat condition when hot water is called for. Should be a simple matter of changing this switch.

[Andy Cap]

Should read without necessary skill or genuine intent. It's insane that they consider a 12 year old boiler finished - no, more accurately, criminal. Scrap the BG contract and get a decent heating engineer to look at it and in the unlikely event it needs replacing. it'll cost you about 2/3 of the BG price.

Andy

[Stuart Noble]

One wonders how realistic it is to expect BG engineers to know the ins and outs of every model of boiler. Still, they've taken on the risk, and must find the solution. I'd be inclined to get written confirmation from WB that spares are available for that model and pass that on to whoever's in charge at BG (if anyone). It really isn't good enough to take the money and then only want to fix the easy bits.

[gazzafield]

Get them to check the pressure in your gas supply pipe. I, and the neighbour downstairs had a very similar problem a while back. Workmen had severed a gas pipe in the street and Transco had come out to "fix it".

The pipe was left with what looked liked some sort of wadding around it and taped up still exposed in the hole. It was also still leaking gas as everyone could smell it. I must also add that the workmen had - illegally - turned the gas off at an underground tap outside my house, then later turned it on. No doubt so no one from Transco would know they had done it.

Anyway, two chaps turned up to fix the fault with the pipe the next morning. When they did my boiler would fire up to heat the water or central heating and run for thirty seconds or so and shut down. The pilot light went out (and it would shut down) when the oven was put on. This happened several times in the morning. I decided that the gas supply to the boiler was too low (and I'm no engineer) and went out and suggested as much to the two chaps outside.

They reckoned my boiler was knackered. At this point my neighbour asked if I was having problems as her pilot light kept going out. Another BG van then trundled up to another neighbour a couple of doors away. We decided to go out as the house was cold and we had no hot water.

The upshot was that the guys were still there when we got back at 7 that night. They needed access to our flat to sort the last piece at the gas meter. They had dug up the garden in three places and replaced pipes, removed taps and all sorts of things as it turns oout there was next to no pressure in our gas pipe. And all for nothing too.

[Mathew Newton]

WB told me they intend to supply spares for their boilers for 10 years following the last production date.

To the OP, what model boiler is it?

Mathew

[adder1969]

Might be that they've replaced the sensor and it still overheats and they suspect it's because the heat exchanger has furred up meaning there's not much throughput of water. If the main thermostat has failed then this will also lead to an overheat situation and the overheat stat does (and should) cut the circuit.

[Ed Sirett]

Agreed it insane they consider a 12 y.o. Worcester boiler finished. A Pott. Puma or Biasi/Alpha/Vokera well may be.

[John Stumbles]

^^^^^ Careful - you'll rattle you-know-who's cage! :-)

[Andy Cap]

Boilers shouldn't even be allowed into the market place, without a 25 year life expectancy and spares backup. They should be put in the same category as long-life bulbs.

It's intolerable, how the industry has been allowed to undermine people's expectations, frequently relying on their natural ignorance, because the word "gas" naturally instills fear and they take full advantage.

Someone here a few months ago, said that their boiler WAS 8 years old and so should he be looking to replace it ! Such wastefulness negates any saving in energy, that technology is purported to deliver.

Andy

[Nick]

And now they have made it even more difficult!!!! I hear that you now need a certificate of efficiency from Corgi and a planning certificate from your local council (can be issued by a qualified installer). Without these two documents you will not be able to sell your house. Is this correct?

Any questions I should be asking the B Gas engineer when I call them out again (for the last time before I ditch them)?

[Andy Cap]

I really can't see most people turning down a property they want, for the cost of replacing a boiler when most gut the place anyway, to put their own stamp on the house. Anyway, what would happen to all these knackered houses that get sold through auction ? Some are in appalling state but they all have to be renovated by someone. Apparently many purchaser are not bothering with HIPS already.

I like Start Noble's suggestion of asking Worcester if spares are still available. Or you could ask these if they are available, though they probably wont supply you. Though I did get a replacement cap for mine.

might give you an idea of possible prices for replacments. I'm sure there are others. I've just kept a note of these in the past.

[TheScullster]

"Andy Cap" wrote

Not sure what you would have to pay if this was the case!

Hear hear!

[Mathew Newton]

one to compare is

[Ed Sirett]

Agreed, that's why IMHO it's important to get a good boiler to begin with, and fit it properly.

[Ed Sirett]

The only suppliers at the moment who are not so obliging are "Parts Centre" (part of the Plumb/Build/Drain Centere chain which is the Wolseley group. They are starting a spares-only-to-card-carrying-pros initiative. "No card, no parts, no excuses!".

[Nick]

The problem is here not parts but incomptence on behalf of B gas who cannot diagnose the problem. With all the backup infrastructure, laptops etc surely they should be able to work out whats going on here.

[Andy Cap]

True but the point was to have an answer to BG's assertion that parts weren't available, when invariably they are.

Andy

[John Stumbles]

though the only card they've asked me to show them is the one I pay for stuff with :-)