Paging a real plumber

On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 11:42:09 AM UTC+1, Dennis@home wrote:

They usually freeze at the cold spot and split there as the ice expands.

I still think the pipe would split before the joint parted, but don't care enough to try it.
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On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 5:38:18 PM UTC+1, Onetap wrote:

Thinking about it, the pressure increase, as water froze & expanded, would have to shear through the solder across the entire area of the joint.
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Sure, but its less clear that that would require more force than splitting the copper pipe.
Clearly since Dave is the only one who has seen a joint pop, there is enough to split the pipe.
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On 23/07/2014 01:20, Onetap wrote:

There are two basic types of copper pipe. One is made by repeatedly drawing a hollow billet through a series of dies until the desired size is reached. This is the commonest type and very strong, as there are no weak points in the tube.
The other type is made by rolling a sheet of copper to form a tube, and welding the edges together using heat and pressure. This is prone to the longitudinal splitting mentioned. I've not seen it used for a long while, so it may not meet modern legal requirements.
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On Friday, July 18, 2014 7:43:00 AM UTC+1, F Murtz wrote:

Some interesting info on this forum about pros and cons of brazing:
http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/34179-gas-pipe-solder-braze.html
Simon.
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On Friday, July 18, 2014 7:43:00 AM UTC+1, F Murtz wrote:

Some info from reading around:
Plumbing fittings available in the UK are intended for soldering - especially the thin walled copper. Copper to be brazed needs thicker wall pipe since high temperatures can weaken or fracture the thin walled copper, especially when flaring the pipe. Also, couplers for brazing have shallower joints due to the brazing material not running in so far by capillary action.
Brazing is required for caravans or mobile homes, since soft solder can fracture with the movement.
You can get thicker copper "fridge pipe" for use with brazing. Also, Yorkshire do a separate range of pipe and fittings for brazing.
Due to higher temperatures, brazing can be more dangerous in confined spaces, under floors, etc. It can also be harder to remove joints when making modifications.
Also, UK is using more push fit and / or plastic plumbing components - is this used in Australia at all ?
Cheers, Simon.
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sm_jamieson wrote:

Yes.

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On Wednesday, July 23, 2014 10:54:41 AM UTC+1, sm_jamieson wrote:

ces, under floors, etc. It can also be harder to remove joints when making modifications.

While I normally use soldered fittings at home, when I have plumbing done o n the systems at work it would be normal to use push fit on copper. That's mainly due to the enormous hassle involved in getting a premit for hot work (e.g. any time you light a gas torch). If you're doing anything that might set off the fire alarm you have to arrange for the local fire alarms to be deactivated, and for someone to be present for the whole time the alarms a re off as a fire watch. I wouldn't be surprised if other places go for push fit for similar reasons .
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Just lucky, then. Pipes bursting due to freezing are fairly unusual in this part of the country.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Don't need to tell lies to win an argument when there are idiots like you posting here.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Thanks for that.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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It must be far from common as I've only ever seen this once. But not an expert on burst pipes due to freezing because of where I live.
For info, it was in my outside loo. One part of the house I hadn't re-plumbed by then, so I dunno if the joint was properly made. But it did looked well tinned. I cleaned it, applied flux, heated it and pushed it back together - with a little extra solder. Worked fine until I modernised the loo and replaced all the plumbing in it. About 25 years ago. ;-)
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I'm more than willing to accept that as I've little experience of frozen pipes. But surprised no one else has come across it. NP can believe whatever he likes.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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I'm not really, essentially because I can't really picture too many pipe configs where you'd get enough expansion of the ice as it freezes to push the joint components that far to get it to pop.
I don’t think its force so much as just distance that is why you don’t see it much.

Indeed. Particularly after we have just seen him try to bullshit his way out of his predicament on electric motors designed to run 24/7
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wrote:

Drivel. I have never seen a soft soldered joint pull out under any circumstance. I have seen badly made ones leak.
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Total bollix. I have hundreds of freeze ups. The pipe always splits axially after bulging. I have never seen a properly tightend commpression join pull out either.
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On Thursday, July 24, 2014 6:34:34 AM UTC+1, harry wrote:

Unlikely that a soldered joint would fail before the tube split IMHO, but you're assuming the joint had been properly made.
It's still possible if it hadn't been done correctly (wrong clearances, wrong solder, solder overheated & degraded, incompatible fittings, etc.,). There're just so many ways to cock it up.
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On 24/07/14 11:35, Onetap wrote:

especially with 'silver solder' :-)
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wrote:

Full of bollix as per usual. If you want to be able to dissemble a pipe the correct fitting to use is a union. http://www.supplyhouse.com/Copper-Unions-131000
Threaded joints rapidly expend the female side and cease to be water/gas tight if tightened a few times.
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On 24/07/2014 06:44, harryagain wrote:

Idiot, a tap connector is a union! The thread has nothing to do with the seal.
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