Paging a real plumber

[dennis]

that would be silverflow 55, more silver than anything else.

[dennis]

Its called a brazing rod. you braze things with it.

[dennis]

We wouldn't use phosphous in silver solder. We might use 30%Ag, 36%Cu, 32%Zn, 2%Sn but it isn't needed for plumbing water systems and it need 650C to use it.

[F Murtz]

Apparently in the UK they do,in Australia they definitely do not

I most definitely am not wrong that solver solder(brazing)(copper silver phosphor alloy)is used extensively in Australia to join copper pipe on almost all new buildings and construction,not so much on small single residences as they are using plastic now.

Throughout the whole of this discussion when I said silver solder I meant (copper silver phosphor alloy)You kept waffling about soft solder

[F Murtz]

We use the stuff I mention as it it is adequate and not prohibitively expensive as the higher content stuff, look at the first mentioned in this list and its recommended use

[F Murtz]

Why if soft solder is the best?

[John Rumm]

Not if you want to take apart and reassemble several times...

(no great fan of compression fittings myself, but they have their place)

[harryagain]

It has virtually disappeared from the UK though it was once common. Used for underground cold water supplies (now replaced with MDPE, plastic pipe) Also in small bore heating systems for individual radiators.

What has a appeared is a very thin guage copper pipe that is hard and can't be bent cold,. Down to price of copper I suppose.

Plastic pipe is gaining ground. Some people don't trust the various joining systems. There has been various unexpected technical problems with it too.

Also flexible connections for taps/faucets have appeared. Some of them have been dodgy too. (Bursting under pressure)

[harryagain]

Ignorant as ever eh?

[harryagain]

Soft solder fittings are only available up to 54mm/2". The socket in fittings for large diameter pipes are very shallow relative to small diameter copper pipe in order to save metal and so keep the price down. There would be no possibilty of heating large fitting withanything less than oxy/fuel gas anyway. Many large fittings/flanges are intended to be brazed with a fillet round the joint. Compression joints are available in quite large sizes but they have a ring of bolts round them rather than a single nut.

Stainless steel has replaced copper for many applications and that is welded.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Cu-Sn-P is a valid brazing material with our without silver.

[F Murtz]

Some utube for you ( that is never done)

American one

[The Natural Philosopher]

What a waste of gas!

"Applications for brazing are when temperatures are above 350C"

My hot water never gets to 350C.

It strikes me you are shilling for a company selling expensive products that no one actually needs.

[F Murtz]

It seem to me that you are introducing stupid points, this does not help your argument the fact he mentions something which applies to a different area than water reticulation when his other comments do apply is silly. I am shilling for no one just pointing out that people do silver solder (braze) copper pipe in plumbing The utubes were mainly for your benefit Most other posters realize by now that Australia and some others silver solder (braze)copper plumbing and the UK does not much, apparently.

[John Williamson]

Yup, you missed my point again. :-)

[Dave Plowman (News)]

What would be nice to know - and I'm sure we never will - is just why it seems to be so common in Oz, since soft soldering works perfectly well in the UK.

Advantages of soft soldering.

1) Soft solder and flux is relatively cheap. 2) The heat source needed is also cheap - a blowlamp capable with coping with domestic sizes can be bought for a few quid - although pros will prefer professional types which have lower running costs. 3) A soldered joint can be disassembled if needed - provided the pipes are dry.

Disadvantages

1) Requires some skill. 2) Materials to be soldered must be clean.

Advantages of brazing.

1) Stronger.

Disadvantages.

1) Cost of tools required. So high might put it outside DIY. 2) Cost of materials.

[Nightjar]

...

Soft solder gives significantly higher burst pressures on small diameters at normal domestic hot or cold water temperatures. However, the burst pressure of soft solder joints decreases with increases in both tube size and working temperature. Hard soldered joints, which anneal and soften the tube, have a constant burst pressure for virtually any size of tube. Therefore, there comes a point where tube size / working temperature dictates that hard soldering will give a better joint.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

It would also seem that the fitting for larger sizes have less 'overlap' than for the normal domestic sizes, to save on copper. So therefore are designed for a 'stronger' method of jointing.

Also I don't think anyone is saying soft soldering is 'the best'. Just that it does the job adequately for domestic use - so why go for anything more expensive?

[Richard]

Brain damage due to all the pencils he's sucked the lead from.

[Mr Fuxit]

and women