Paging a real plumber

On 18/07/2014 10:13, F Murtz wrote:

We understand what you mean (i.e. what we would call brazing or hard soldering), but were just highlighting that for plumbing, lead free soft solder is the norm here.
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John.
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John Rumm wrote:

You may know what I mean and most others may know . but one did not or this discussion would not be going on.
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On 18/07/2014 11:50, F Murtz wrote:

Well such is usenet ;-)
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John.
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On 18/07/14 08:47, Dave Liquorice wrote:

And all over the English speaking world.

Exactly.
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Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for the
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge. – Erwin Knoll
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The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Nothing at all to do with my discussion except the high melting point one
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"F Murtz" wrote in message

In a word no!
Having said that my brother had a flat in central London where the pipes were brazed - so no Tee joint, just a hole cut in the main run and the branch brazed in. The joins in runs were pipe ends that had been expanded and brazed. It was sufficiently unusual to provoke comment at the time (early 1970's)
I've used 'Colphos' which I think is the braze you are referring to on cooling pipes on my induction furnace and it was a very nice process requiring no flux, but that was a rather special application where the pipes also carried enormous currents.
Andrew
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Playing safe as there are some water supplies in ANZ which attack soft solder? UK water supplies are less aggressive - like our spiders, snakes, fish, .................
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Robin
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Nope.

Bullshit. The water is in fact a lot harder in quite a bit of Britain.
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"Rod Speed" wrote in message wrote

Oh fuck. Rod is here now.
For anyone interested in antipodean plumbing: http://www.kembla.com/assets/Uploads/general-PDFs/The-Plumbers-Handbook.pdf
Also see this from: https://law.resource.org/pub/nz/ibr/as-nzs.3500.5.2000.html <q> 2.6 JOINTING
2.6.1 Silver brazing alloy
2.6.1.1 Copper and copper alloys
Silver brazing alloys for capillary jointing of copper and copper alloy pipes and fittings shall comply with AS 1167.1 and shall contain a minimum of 1.8% silver and shall a maximum of 0.05% cadmium. 2.6.1.2 Stainless steel pipes
Silver brazing alloys for capillary jointing of stainless steel pipes and fittings shall comply with AS 1167.1 and shall contain a minimum of 38% silver and a maximum of 0.05% cadmium. 2.6.2 Soft solders
The following limitations shall apply to the use of soft solder: Soft solder shall not contain more than 0.1% lead by weight. Soft solder shall only be used for jointing copper or copper alloy pipes to capillary fittings of the long engagement type complying with AS 3688. Soft solder shall not be used with coiled annealed pipes. NOTE: In certain areas, soft-soldered joints may not be suitable due to the chemical composition of the water and, hence, their use may not be permitted. </q>
And, no I'm not a real plumber even though I don't wear a tie.
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Richard wrote:

At last a voice in the wilderness, I am not mad Australia does use the silver solder that I have been talking about and in some cases it is compulsory contrary to one lot of advice that nowhere in the world does this happen
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Richard wrote:

Dont know if anyone noticed that annealed coil has to be silver soldered wonder what the case is in the UK
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On 18/07/2014 12:33, F Murtz wrote:

Typically used on microbore heating systems etc. Usually soft soldered or pushfit these days.
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You are right in your last remark. There is a whole wadge of legislation in Oz to prevent DIY in just about everything. It is the ultimate nanny society.
Lead based solders in the UK are not allowed for potable water but are still widely used for central heating and could be used for hot water.
I think electronics also has to be lead free also now.
Probably lead based solder will disappear altogether in the near future. I think the replacement is mostly zinc.
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On 18/07/2014 09:38, harryagain wrote:

Lead free solder is about 95% tin with a bit of silver and a couple of other minor ingrediants. Tin's easily confused with zinc, as it's a metal....
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harryagain wrote:

But not in this instance, there is no legislation about using silver solder just industry recommendation and specs set down by architects,designers and engineers.

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On 18/07/2014 10:01, F Murtz wrote:

Probably part of the closed shop mentality that still seems to pervade Aus attitudes... it used to be the same here in the '70s - there are some that would like to go back there as well!
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Nope. Yorkshire fittings are perfectly legal.

Bullshit. Just electrical wiring, plumbing and gas.

Not a chance.

You're wrong, as always.
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On 18/07/2014 09:38, harryagain wrote:

Agreed. And that is where our stupid Part P building reg came from.

Not where avionics is concerned. Lead-free solder is totally banned for anything important on a civil aeroplane. There are plenty of photos of how lead-free joints fail on the web. There is one taken by cutting open a transister can showing the 'whiskers' that seem to develop.
And anyway, I thought the refridgeration industry always brazes copper pipework, and the pipe ends are usually flared on site using a special tool whose name I forget.
Domestic copper piping has always used preformed sockets that are (were) more suitable to low(er) temperature lead-based solder that uses capillary action to fill the joint.
everything is different in Oz. I believe soldering electrical mains cable is the preferred method, while we use junction boxes or crimps.
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Andrew wrote:

No, use lots of methods. but you we us do have a lot of differences in general house work (ring mains etc)
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Nope.

You're wrong.

So do we.

So do we.
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