OT Will they win if they take me to small claims court fo r £9.87

[ARW]

An ongoing do with an electrical wholesalers that I have a cash account with. Basically I have my prices set up but I cannot take goods without paying for them at the counter.

The accounts department say I have not paid for a £9.87 transaction and are threatening me with small claims.

After lots of phone calls I spoke with "N" that served me when I bought the goods.

He remembers the transaction as I dealt with a clueless member of the public asking questions about LED lights whilst he collected my bits and pieces and he also remembers that I gave him £10 and said forget about the change as you never have any.

There was also another comment about the 60A JB I bought and where "N" wanted to insert it into the clueless member of public that I had dealt with (BG 60A JB's are shaped for a smooth fit)

None of this is helped by the fact my account is with the wholesalers in town A, I bought the bits from the wholesalers in town B and the accounts dept/head office is in town C.

Any options other than to wait for the summons, have a day out in town C and call "N" as my number one witness as accounts will not listen to me or "N"?

[GB]

Hmmm, I don't want to insinuate against N, but not taking the change may have been a bad idea. Because you didn't take the 13p, he didn't need to open the till. So, it's possible he pocketed the £10. If so, good luck getting him to appear as a witness. :)

Why not pay on a card?

[ARW]

There is no till.

[ARW]

Thinking about it I have never seen an electrical wholesalers that has a till.

[GB]

I've never seen anyone pay cash in one, but if they take cash, they must have somewhere to put it, surely?

Incidentally, was I incredibly lucky with the following? I had to replace a 2D bulkhead fitting, so went round the corner to the wholesaler. I bought one the same size, and it was an exact duplicate of the one already there - that was installed about 6 or 7 years ago. So, I just changed the innards. Is there a standard design that doesn't change over almost a decade?

Do the electronic ballasts on those go? It's the second one I've had to replace this year.

[ARW]

I probably spend more time in them than you do.

Cash sales are allowed and often happen.

You lucky bastard:-)

[charles]

TLC in Guildford does take cash, so they emust be some form of storage - but it's under the counter.

[Fredxx]

Which implies no credit.

Which implies credit.

What evidence does the wholesaler have you got your 60A JB on credit?

[spuorgelgoog]

Coughtrie? Made in Glasgow since 1941, and apart from having metric threads some of their stuff looks like it hasn't changed since then.

Owain

[spuorgelgoog]

He's either pocketed it, or lost it or misrecorded it. Either is probably a sacking offence.

If he misrecorded it then either the cash should have been £9.87 over on the daily till control sheet (or whatever they use to track their cash sales) or another customer has benefited.

Adam won't get every other customer's account for the day, but he can ask for the daily till control sheet, and he should also get a signed statement from N asap before N realises it's probably in his interest to deny everything.

Burden of proof in civil cases is on the balance of probability.

Owain

[Robin]

Wines have been taken so what follows may be (even more than usually) squiffy.

1. Whether or not they'll pursue it depends on lots of things - including the evidence and the credibility of their witnesses vs you. It seems unlikely given the limits on costs. But why not ask on one the electricians' forums if others have had similar experience with that wholesaler? (I don't see why you should not name them so long as you just set out the bald facts and do not allege any malice or incompetence on their part. If they don't like the bad publicity that's their problem.)

1. I agree with Owain that you should ask N to put in writing his recollection. That seems to me crucial as I cannot see how they have a case against you unless N or another member of staff states that you took goods without paying for them.

2. Have you had a "letter before action" from them which sets out their claim? If not - eg because the accounts department have just been phoning you - then you should get one before any summons. And if you get fed up with the phoning you could ask them to "set out their case in writing - in a letter before action or otherwise - so I can seek further guidance from my legal advisers".

1. I suggest you also make a SAR for any CCTV of the alleged incident (not to say theft). They'll probably say the recording has been wiped but it may help to underline you ain't a numpty.

But I'm afraid this old fart thinks the general lesson may be "always get a receipt".

[Tricky Dicky]

I cannot see it getting anywhere near court for that small amount it is probably more hassle than it is worth for them especially if the decision went against them. The worst is they will close your account and even then is it worth doing that and losing your future business. If as you say in the past you have not been allowed to take goods off the premises without paying why would this occasion be different, ask them to show the the video of you running out the premises as evidence. It is probably some bean counter spotted a shortfall in receipts and looked for the nearest transaction and hoped to scare someone into coughing up for it!

Richard

[Brian Reay]

The transaction has been entered into the trader?s system as the accounts department know about it.

Presumably the person who entered it onto the system is the person you handed the money to.

He remembers your handing him the money etc so there doesn?t seem to be any question of dishonesty, simply a disconnect between him and the accounts department.

You could write to them suggesting they check with him and, if they persist, respond by saying you will us him as a witness that you not only paid but present the letter explaining events etc.

Faced with that, they would be beyond foolish not to verify your version of events and hopefully drop the matter.

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

As long as you are sure about your witness and it can be proven that the transaction in question is the one they have no record of you paying, you are pretty safe, but of course, If I were the person making a decision on this I'd make Dan sure the company paid the court costs, your out of pocket expenses and although it has no place inlay, an extra for being so bloody stupid. Who can say though, as they could line up loads of people to say you and your witness are wrong. Brian

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

Does nstill work for them, it might be they suspect him of fiddling, but they can't prove it and see the customer as the softer target. I have to say that when I had a similar experience the company I dealt with and I agreed that if I wonted to I could donate it to a charity of my choice, and they would forget it. Well, you know, not sure how this helped them but I wonder if this is a company with a cash flow issue. Brian

[ARW]

Actually it's not uncommon for sole traders to settle their months credit account with cash. Presumably because a customer has just paid them in cash for a job.

I don't spend enough to warrant a credit account and there is another reason for having a cash account (yes you can pay by card). I can send people to buy stuff for jobs I am doing for them and they have to pay there and they get my discount. This stops them ordering other stuff and not paying for it at a later date. I don't allow many people to do this but it is handy. eg a poster on here [1] I did some work for picked up the gear from the wholesalers round the corner from his house so I could fit it on a Sunday. I was working in a prison all week and could not get to the wholesalers.

With a credit account the wholesalers would have to ring me to authorise that transaction or I would have to email them before hand to authorise it. With a cash account they will just serve my customer.

[1] Probably a bad example as he is the most trustworthy of people I have met and would never try to sting anyone and he knows he can use my account anytime he wants.

[ARW]

Well the account is on stop.

However both A and B branches are still serving me as just cash sales and still give me my discount.

Both branches often do charity events and I have always been a generous sponsor.....

[Mr Pounder Esquire]

[GB]

:)

I have cash accounts at various places. I simply pay with a card, never with old-fashioned cash. That makes it easier for me to do my accounts.

As to the £9.87, I think you have to decide whether you are prepared to swallow your pride and just pay them. The amount of time and effort involved in fighting it is disproportionate.

What is more, if they were to issue proceedings against you, the costs would shoot up. They are allowed to add on the court fee (£30).

There may also be 'fixed commencement costs' of around £60, except I don't think those are payable if the claim is under £25. *Robin* will know.

Anyway, the point is that the odds don't look so good. You save £9.87 if you win, but you pay at least £39.87 if you lose.

They'd be equally mad to fight this case, but who knows what they'll do? One of you ought to give in.

[tabbypurr]

CCTV footage would clear it up, but it's unlikely they kept it. In the end it's most likely your word against theirs. a) they need a bit more than that to get anywhere in court b) their costs mean not much chance of pursuing £9.87 in any case, and especially when you're a regular customer. So you're unlikely to get to court.

NT