A challenge for old house lovers

Okay, here's the story. I am now considering a property in Lincolnshire. This is a very, very old cottage, at least 150 years, I reckon. The setting is isolated and idyllic. But I made some enquiries from the agent, who told me that the building had been underpinned at the rear some years ago. I have not yet visited the property.

Some questions:

Buildings of that era had no foundations, true?

Does underpinning cure, or postpone, a problem?

What is the cost of errecting a new traditionally built bog-standard detached house with two to three bedrooms? I'm talking ball-park here. Absolutely bog-standard, but well constructed, with cavity walls, solid internal walls, at least downstairs, lots of insulation, quality windows and doors, floorboards instead of chipboard. In effect, what would the building cost be for a slighlty better than "council house" design? £60,000? £80,000? This has to be for the finished habitable, product.

If house has stood anyway for 150 years, it's likely to remain for a good few years yet, true?

MM

Reply to
Mike Mitchell
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Personally, I wouldn't worry about underpinning, provided it was done by a reputable company with guarantees. This is provided the reason for it is known. For example, upgrading missing foundations is a good reason. It slipping halfway into a mine shaft is a bad reason.

However, I would definitely ensure that there would be no problems with insurance if I purchased it, and would want a lower valuation to cover my problems selling the property on as some people are rabidly against any underpinning. I would certainly get a full structural survey.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

Our house has no foundations - brick built interwar semi. It, to date, hasn't needed underpinning. I'm a little concerned that several neighbours are having vertical extensions built.

I'd have thought so - but I don't call 150 years "very, very old"! Reminds me of when I first went to america and was proudly shown "the oldest house on the island" - it was 90 yo.

Mary

Reply to
Mary Fisher

Some did, but shallow.

Mostly it cures it if done properly.

Go timber framed with external clad brick. Having solid blocks and bricks and high insulation is very expensive and entails very thick walls. Give the house an eco tag and the planners will be more favourable....see below for the a guide in building a house

No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

A house to the specs bleow can be built for approx 80-100K depending on what input you give yourself.

The Building Structure:

- A light framed superinsulated structure (Minimum of 400mm of Warmcell spay-in cellulous insulation in the roof, 250-300mm in the walls, heavy foam in the floor if a concrete slab). Have Warmcell in internal walls so as to give sound insulation - it is v. good at this.

- Face the house south to capture passive solar energy.

- Calculate the pitch of the roof for maximum insulation at your latitude.

- Calculate the roof overhangs to keep the sun off the windows and walls in summer.

- Have the north side with few windows.

- Triple glazed with low "e" glass.

- Eliminate thermal bridges. These tend to be where the walls meet the ground and the roof, or one material meets another. Use nylon tie bars if cladding in brick

- Use SIP panels or TJI "I" beams. The void in the "I" beams can be filled with Warmcell cellulous insulation (re-cycled newspaper). The Warmcell makes the structure air-tight.

- Have all of the south facing roof being a solar panel heating water from the sun. That is a large surface generating much heat.

- Could have a full width conservatory on the south side. Better if full width and full height. This will help but not essential. Nice to have though as bedrooms could have a balcony opening into the conservatory and you can have coffee on the balcony in January.

- No letterbox in front door. All doors heavily insulated and sealed (the Swedes do the best doors).

- Have a study for home working.

Heating, Vent, Thermal Storage:

- Store the heat in a large thermal store, which would have to be sized to suit. Better have a battery of small cylinders, so if one leaks it is an easy and cheap job of replacing.

- The heavy thermal stores can be at ground level. They could even be in a separate building with superinsulted underground pipes between it and the house if need be. The thermal store should hold enough energy to heat the building over 3 or 4 cloudy days.

- Use "very" low temperature underfloor heating, which means lots of underfloor pipes.

- In winter not a lot of very hot water will be generated, but hot enough for very low temp underfloor heating.

- This low temperature water can act as a preheat for DHW.

- If hot water is generated, hot enough for domestic hot water, then this water should be suitably stored for ready use rather than merging into a large low temperature water store.

- The controls will be off the shelf and all be using the odd pump here and there.

- A backup heat source can be incorporated when cloudy days extend over 3 or

4 days.

- The water system is understandable by any intelligent plumber.

- As underfloor heating is being used, best have an extract only vent system. Heat recovery is expensive. The thermal store should store enough energy for the heating system to compensate for vent losses.

Water Reclamation:

- There are large water tanks that fill from the roof available ready made. The BENELUX countries have these as standard in new builds.

- The water tank is under the garden.

- The water is used to water the garden and flush toilets, reducing water consumption drastically.

PV Cell:

- Don't bother as they are still super expensive with very long payback times. If the house done as above then little electricity will be used.

Low Energy Appliance:

- These tend to be German like AEG, etc. Find out which of these is the most economical in energy and water consumption and put these in the spec.

Comms:

- Wire the place out in CAT 5 to accommodate computers and home working.

The above is the basic concept. Then, depending on site, size of house, etc, it is a matter of applying numbers to size up the thermals store, heat loss, How much energy the solar roof will generate, sizing a "very" low temp underfloor heating system, etc.

Look at this book: Building with Strucutural Insulated Panels (SIPs): Strength and Energy Efficiency Through Structural Panel Construction By Michael Morley ISBN: 1561583510

Synopsis Structural insulated panels are sandwiches of foam insulation between two sheets of fibreboard or plywood, and are used to build walls, roofs and floors in all kinds of modern buildings: instead of three components - a frame, insulation and sheathing - SIP panels are all three things and come ready to install. SIP- constructed buildings are vastly more efficient, quicker to build, stronger, quieter and more draught-free than older post-war building systems. Taps into a huge and growing self-build market which is generally only served by technical books.; Tips and information on this highly efficient building material from an expert builder who specialises in structural insulated panel construction. Packed with 180 colour photographs and 40 drawings.; Takes the reader through the entire process of building a panel-constructed house, from planning and estimating, ordering, storage and handling to construction.

Some SIP companies:

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at "I" beams:
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Reply to
IMM

Often true.

If done properly, it cures it.

No idea!

Depends where it is. Many older houses near main roads are now suffering from vibrations caused by increasingly heavy lorries going past. If it isn't on a lorry route it's got a better chance of surviving.

Reply to
Set Square

I'd guess more around the 100K mark, depending on spec and area etc.

Christian.

Reply to
Christian McArdle

What a nonsense statement.

It would apply to anything constructed, and a solid masonry structure that has already stood solidly for 150 years is far more likely to last for another 150 than one of your SIP panel disposable prefabs.

.andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall

Reply to
Bob Mannix

From another thread, try:-

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Reply to
usenet

GBP750 per sq m.

Reply to
Peter Parry

slightest bit interested in SIPs, straw bales, that kind of thing. To me a house is a house that is built like a brick outhouse, end of story. Bricks, mortar, windows, a chimney, and a fireplace. Simple. I don't care if it's a bit draughty.

MM

Reply to
Mike Mitchell

No. I shuld have said: No. The longer it is there the closer it is to falling down.

Reply to
IMM

What a mentalist statement. He continues...

My God, this one has no idea whatsoever. He doesn't even know what a SIP panel is and goes on about them. Fascinating, fascinating.

Reply to
IMM

SIPs are mainstream in north America, being the UK we are 30 years behind (SIPS were invented around 1950), you don't need to wear sandals and eat lentil sandwiches to use them. Many commercial building use them in the USA, and now here in the UK too. Taco Bell Mexican fast food outlets in the USA are built of SIPs. SIP builings of up to 4 or 5 floors have been built.

SIPs are "very" solid indeed with all the floors and walls being "solid". Sound suppression is superb. Do some research

That will be SIPs then. And you won't need a heating system either. It will also be built in afew days.

A SIP house can be clad in brick.

A concrete base can be used.

SIP house have windows would you believe.

SIP houses can have chimney's

And fireplaces too.

SIPs are not draughty. But if that is what turns you on then holes can be drilled were you sit.

Reply to
IMM

That price is so vague it is not worth considering.

Reply to
IMM

Do you have pointed ears or something?

It is pretty easy to find out information about SIPs. Even you managed it.

I notice that as usual, you didn't mention any of the disadvantages of these materials such as the effects of insect and rodent infestation.

Little boxes on the hillside, Little boxes made of ticky-tacky, Little boxes, little boxes, Little boxes, all the same. There's a green one and a pink one And a blue one and a yellow one And they're all made out of ticky-tacky And they all look just the same.

.andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall

We also have a rather different climate to much of it.

A real recommendation then.

So are the leftovers of the building used to make the tacos or the other way round.?

.andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall

Why didn't you then?

On SIPs? Please give examples. It is best you stop making things up.

Now this mentalist goes on .....

Wow...wow!

Reply to
IMM

And much of it the same. They also eat more hamburgers than us too.

Yep.

Well they will a taco whatever way you like.

Reply to
IMM

If I had said £30.00 to £3,000 per sq m that would have been vague. £750 on the other hand is not vague at all but quite precise. It may be wrong, but it remains precise. As a planning figure I suggest it is not far off.

The cost of construction, all other things being equal, relates to the size of the house so a cost per sq m of floor area is more helpful than "x for a y bedroom" as 3 or 4 bedroom is meaningless other than to estate agents.

Reply to
Peter Parry

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