"In some sectors, moving to zero carbon will represent a cost saving. Electric cars, for instance, will be cheaper to run than petrol or diesel vehicles. Eventually, the same is likely to be true of low-carbon domestic heating, after the cost of switching"
Er, electric cars are cheaper to run than fossil fuel because of the amount of fuel tax that we pay. So just how will the government fund public services?
Low carbon domestic heating cheaper than gas? I don't think so.
I really wouldn't be pinning my future on motoring being as common as previously. Certainly not by number of cars ...
by taxes on electric cars....
+1
Comparing apples to oranges and neglecting that the fact that the source of tax revenue will have to be switched to zero carbon solutions.
Factoring in the cost of switching probably changes any conclusions about lower costs (to the consumer) but going green has never been about saving money.
Give it 30 years when there will be so many scrap electric cars with duff batteries I wonder how the current green revolution will be viewed in retrospect.
In the same way that we view 17thC witch-dunking today.
To compensate for the (massive) loss of fuel duty and 20% VAT on top, as compared to 5% vat on leccy, plus the equally large loss of corporation tax currently paid by Big Oil.
On a like for like basis, quite possibly.
Servicing is much reduced - no oil changes, spark plugs, air filters, cambelts, DPFs, clutches, exhausts, transmissions... basically if there isn't a big red light on the dash you're good to go. (although you still need the usual MOT-time checks on suspension, brakes, tyres, etc).
They're more efficient energy-wise compared with fossil (kWh in versus kWh of motion), and some of that energy you can generate at home with solar.
So I wouldn't be surprised if that calculation works out, irrespective of road tax.
It's not far off. Look at the cost differential between electricity and gas, and compare with heat pump COP - it's (very) roughly parity. Electricity costs more, but you make it back because you use it more effectively to drive the heat pump.
Obviously capital cost is the biggie, but then the reason gas boilers are cheap despite being quite complex these days is because they're made in such volumes. ASHP (and GSHP) prices will come down.
Theo
But with the same mileage that requires some of the more expensive service/repairs on a petrol/diesel car a new battery set may be required on an electric car.
Those solar panels are going to be working rather hard powering your replacement heat pump central heating as well as supplying your electric car and all your other domestic electricity needs. Is domestic solar cost effective yet without FITs payments?
Road tax and fuel tax. Road tax will not stay at its current low level when more people buy electric cars. Electric would become the "normal" with owners paying the equivalent of petrol/diesel road tax of today, possibly even more if current fuel tax is transferred/added to road tax. I doubt that in a few year's time cities would exempt electric cars from the congestion/polution taxes. Possibly tax raising would be based on road usage.
What's the efficiency of a ASHP in the UK in the cold winter months. They appear to be cost effective in hot countries where used to cool inside air.
But aircon units are mass produced so are ASHP and GSHP prices going to fall that much? With GSHP it will be labour or the hire of machinery to install that will be the dominant cost.
Other idiots, unless they really do think we all believe in the tooth fairy. Its already started. Have a look who is providing public charging points and how they are doing it? Its councils and they are letting private companies run them. So add the cost of the actual power to the cost of provision and looking after them, and factor in the profit of the private company and no doubt the money the council charge for the space and such and charging a car on one is going to only be expensive. Add to that you have to charge it, you cannot simply keep a spare can of electric in your boot to get you to the cheaper chargers off peak at home.
As has been said before, Hydrogen has to be the future, but isince the idiots need to make money first we all go first gnen electric. Brian
I want my self driving car now. Brian
And how is this any different to buying fuel from any current retailer?
Also, damage to the road is proportional the the 4th. power of the weight (MIRA), so the roads will get more damage, especially if the acceleration of BEVs is maxed frequently.
That's easily fixed!
Surely it is more like buying bottled gas etc from a shop?
No it doesn't have to be the future, unless you believe in the tooth fairy. Explain exactly *how* it could be the future.
I suspect that voters may have something to say about that at the ballot box, when the time comes
>
We used to run two cars between my wife and myself. She was doing the school run, and I drove to work. My work was only 45 minutes walk away - maybe 20 minutes by bicycle. What possessed me to drive rather than walk/bike?
Anyway, we now have one car, which barely moves from the driveway.
the weather
Tesla are touting a 'million mile battery'. I think we're likely to get to a point where the battery isn't the thing that causes the car to be scrapped, it'll be something else first.
A recent quote:
Based on the roof size you provided at registration, the optimal number of panels for your roof is 20.
Complete solar panel system £5,321 Shading optimisation £400 Battery Storage (4.3kwh) £2,798 The total price of your package is: £8,519
In your first year: Solar only With battery You'll save on your energy bill: £305 £585 With an export tariff, you could earn: £182 £86 Your panels will generate: 5,224 kWh 5,224 kWh Of which, you'll be able to use: 1,933 kWh 3,657 kWh Your independence from the grid: 25 % 49 % The amount of carbon emissions saved: 1,217 kg 1,217 kg
Don't think I'm going for it, but it looks plausible territory if you can consume locally (eg electric car). You'd charge the car when you don't need to heat (or, in a future scenario, use the car battery to run heat in the evening when the sun has gone down if you don't need the car the next day or can refill by morning on cheaper electric overnight). The thin point comes in the winter when there's no sun and everything needs grid power. (Especially, as others point out, at times of high pressure when there's no wind to power the grid. I think you can't get away from burning some gas here).
Sorry, I meant fuel tax. I'm sure road pricing is coming eventually, whatever kind of car you have.
COP ~2 when it gets icy. But of course we have lots of winter days when it's 5-10C which heat pumps should handle fine.
At Walmart, a 40000 BTU air to air a/c unit is $1252. That's 11.4kW. An
11.2kW ASHP is GBP5.5K (at Wolesley). Obviously not apples to apples, but you get the idea.For GSHP I'm sure there are ways to reduce the cost that aren't cut and cover (or super deep borehole) if the volumes are there. Minimising manpower and time on site would help a lot.
Theo
Good point, but only maybe 50 days a year (as we're in London). It would have been £5 a throw for a cab.
"climate adviser" = paid liar.
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