OT - unintended consequences?

As everyone seems to be posting election stuff:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32468997
Rents to be capped at inflation, rental contracts to be for three years with no termination by the landlord without a "good reason" (whatever that is).
So all tenants will be both secure for three years and know their rents won't be going up?
My take on this is:
(1) If there seems to be any chance of this happening then rents will be jacked way up immediately to circumvent the cap.
(2) If being tied to a three year agreement seems too binding, then landlords will evict and potentially leave the rental market.
(3) There will be an awful lot of in-fighting over what are "good reasons" to evict.
All this isn't going to help tenants - because they are going to get a steep rent rise or/and eviction.
This isn't going to help the rental market because it makes being a landlord less attractive and will reduce the available rental properties.
It isn't going to help people to buy because although there are likely to be ex-rental properties coming on the market, the cost of rental is going to be rising rapidly so comparisons between rent and buy are going to push house prices up. There are also likely to be a number of ex-tenants looking for somewhere to live because the rental market has just shrunk. So they will be chasing existing properties because not enough new properties are being built.
It is quite likely that large commercial landlords will consider evicting tenants and leaving properties empty if this looks to make economic sense.
So (not pointing a finger at any one political party) the way to reduce rentals and purchase costs is to BUILD MORE HOUSES!!
Trying to artificially restrict market forces does not solve this kind of problem.
Sigh.
Dave R
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On 26/04/15 12:35, David wrote:

Whilst I think the motives are good, as you say, this is all wrong and will end up being a massive shitbag of unintended consequences.
Labour need to stop with "landlords are evil" and realise that a great many landlords are just ordinary people with an extra propery rather than the Duke of Westminster.
The "right way" IMHO is to:
1) Have an independent but binding arbitration service that seeks to be fair to both parties and does have a say on rent increases and terminations.
2) Get the carrots out - if you want to get landlords to lower rents and/or be more flexible with terms, add some incentives - eg zero council tax between tenancies upto X months and perhaps a discount on income tax on the rent if the landlord signs up to some tenant friendly schemes.
And it's not all about landlords - it should be possible to encourage good tenants and deal with bad ones (I've been one and I've seen the other).
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"Tim Watts" wrote in message

So what happens to the good landlords who don't rip people off?
I have one property where I'm only charging 66% of the market rent - tenant has been there many years and we've agreed to slowly raise it year on year - so if Labour get in should I instantly slap in a massive increase to cover myself. How does that help the tenant?
Only good thing is if Labour get in there will be rampant inflation, and they are proposing tying increases to inflation :)
Andrew
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On 26/04/15 13:46, Andrew Mawson wrote:

It's a good question - and I am not anti landlord as I can see myself being one one day... And I have been a tenant so I like to think I can see fairly from both sides.

And that's why I will never vote Labour because they do stupid stuff like this... I am all for adding a disincentive to fleecing people but it's hard to do without affecting cases like yours. My last landlord never put up our rent over several years and it was below market value by the time we left. We even made it easy and asked him if he was considering changing it (to broach the subject) and he said because we reported problems quickly and didn't cause trouble he was happy to keep it the same.
If there were to be some controls, I cannot think of a less broken way than a tribunal - at least you get to offer evidence that you are under charging a tenant rather than being slapped by a one-size formula.

On the plus side, I don't think Millipede has the balls for another stupid war unlike that bastard Tony B Liar so at least we might not throw a few billion down the pan...
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 13:19:47 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

<snip OP>

<snip>
AFAIK there is already a rent tribunal - and a tenant can appeal if he/she feels that the rent is too high (but not within 6 months of signing a new agreement).
However the kicker is that it should be a "market rent" - nothing is said about a "fair rent".
So if most landlords jack up their prices by the same amount then that is the market rent.
The courts already arbitrate on rental terminations.
<$Deity> help us all if someone tries to bring in controlled rent with a permanent right to rent.
I say again, the only problem is too few properties. It doesn't even matter if all new properties are "executive" instead of "affordable". Build enough and supply and demand will blur the boundaries.
The traditional '30s three bedroom semi must have been classed as "affordable" a few decades back - prices are just rising and rising because there aren't enough houses to go round.
As a home owner I like the high prices.
However I would still support the mass building of council houses to provide affordable rental property for all.
Never happen though whilst all the major parties are funded by business.
To the barricades brothers and sisters! [As long as they are painted in suitable heritage colours, of course.]
Cheers
Dave R
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I hope you have got estate duty sorted.

As a landowner, I'll support your support.

Umm.. is that the issue? I live in the metropolitan greenbelt and planning refusals are two a penny. However, there is a large element of current residents pulling up the ladder against further development. They call it resisting encroachment or some such.

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I thought the South Cambs Local Plan was infill only for the villages. Has that changed?
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I haven't really bothered to keep up. I tentatively put forward an area (20 acres) of arable land with existing housing on two sides for their earlier strategic land review. This was rejected as *rising land* ie. visible and linked in some obscure way to wildlife of the Ouse washes!
For the current SLAA review, I didn't get involved although many other landowners did try. The results should be accessible on the S.Cambs site.
Nearer home, Hatfield wants to expand South West, St. Albans South East, Hemel North east, Harpenden West...... to say nothing of Luton Airport expansion:-)

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That will end up being just another government bureaucracy.

That will encourage landlords to kick tenants out and hike the rent when your government bureaucracy has no say on the rent.
and perhaps a discount on

Impossibly complicated on the last bit.

No one has been able to come up with one in millennia now.
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Yes I agree, but around these parts there is a great argument with new developments not having enough of what they call affordable homes. The only way forward, in my view is for government to do what they did after the war, and spend money themselves to build council properties for rent at reasonable rates. This would mean no right to buy etc, as I think that idea is what got us into this mess in the first place. Brian
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On 26/04/2015 12:35, David wrote:

4) Landlords will give notice automatically at the end of three years for the good reason they have "decided to stop renting the place". Then give it a quick tart up, have a change of mind, and stick it back into the market at 50% over the previous rent. If queried why its now so much more, explain that it has had "extensive upgrades" since last rented.

Since when has any bit of daft legislation that sets out to "protect" some segment of the market ever done what it is supposed to?
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On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 16:24:15 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

Don't most ASTs contain a clause capping rent rises to RPI annually anyway...?

Hopefully, it'll include "the tenant is a freeloading scrote with no respect for neighbours or property".

It's "supposed to" get those living in the private rental sector to vote for the Labour party. No more, no less.
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On Sunday, 26 April 2015 16:24:16 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

When I rented a room in the 80s the then DHSS came around asking who owned the bed linen, was teh renter allowed in the frontroom and lots of other details to make sure the rent was resonable. Why can't this sort oif thing be done. It could be done in a similar way to AA car test reports. In that a prospective tennant can pay for this service to be carried out.
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It obviously can but the last thing anyone needs is that sort of bureaucracy involved.

Makes no sense at all to be paying for something like that.
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On Monday, 27 April 2015 21:06:25 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:

It's not the last thing the tax payer wants. Problem mis those on benifits are being charge £150 for a room that shoul d be more than £60, ther landlord canb charge what they want as they know it'll be paid for via benifits.

It doesn;t if you're on benifits, but if paying yuorself like anything you want to get good value and not be ripped off. Some people are willing to pay for such advice let them do what they wish. Of cours ethos eijn the business of renting or selling badly maintainced or sub standard properties wouldn't want such a thing, any more than a dogey car dealer would who's running a chop shop.
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Fraid so.

Pity that the vast bulk of renters aren't on benefits.

Pity that the vast bulk of renters aren't on benefits.

Only a fool demands some govt bureaucracy ensures that.

Sure.

And anyone with even half a clue doesn't want a govt bureaucracy doing that either.
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On Tuesday, 28 April 2015 11:56:12 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:

"

Fraid not. No one realy want benifit fraud part form those benifiting from it.

Doesn;t make any differnce when thre;s not enough properties as the landlord knows they can charge whatever they want.

But those that are is what's pushing up the prices of rents. Then there's the sneaky agreements you have to sign, and the extortionate d eposits. Do you really think this room is worth £100 a week ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-32082390
40 grand a year http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30258348

where the govenment decides on the law that's the way to go. Taking the law into your own hands isn't usually the best option.

They want someone doing it that they can trust to give an impartial decisio n.
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wrote

We aren't discussing fraud.

Plenty don’t.

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage.

Corse not, but there are plenty worth what is charged.

There are plenty worth what is charged.

Even sillier and more pig ignorant than you usually manage.

Deciding what is worth renting isn't taking the law into your own hands.

More fool them.
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On Tuesday, 28 April 2015 20:42:06 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:

It's what happens when there are more people wanting homes than their are h omes. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/landlords-making-millions-from-fraud-1346 840.html
For the inteligent this has been know of for some times, stupid peole like youself don;t understand simple economics even the starting point of supply and demand is beyond you. In simple terms it's what makes precious metal precious and why it's cost m ore than dog shit.

enough do, and that has an effect on others.

And how do you work that one out. How much do you think a room with a tree in it is worth ? or how much would yuo be willing to pay ?

How do you work out how much a place is worth ?
Here in London it;s getting common place to put in a bid higher than the es timated value to make sure you have a chance of winning it. It's the way auctions work, you do understand such things don't you. the more something is wanted the higher teh price goes. It's linked to the number of people wanting it, of course sometime the oppo site happens even though the object itself is unchanged or unaltered in any way.
Why would a products price suddenly reduce in value in value ? http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-07-01/rolf-harris-paintings-worth-90-le ss-following-guilty-verdict
Only someone as stupid as you would fail to understand.

Governments do make laws, did you not know that, stupid.
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wrote

That is what happens even when there aren't more people wanting somewhere to live than there are places to live.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

Plenty clearly rent them.

Irrelevant when few rent places with a tree in them.

You look at what else is on offer.

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