OT : Thunderbird / AVG Antivirus - emails deleted - warning!

HI folks (Sorta OT - but I'm trying to fix it myself )

My wife's pc runs Win xp, Thunderbird for email and AGV Antivirus free...

This morning, she's found that every email she had in her T'bird inbox prior to today has been deleted.

Seems AVG found a dodgy attachment in an incoming email, and decided to quarantine the entire inbox. I know (from recent browsing) that emails shouldn't be stored in T'bird's inbox, but moved to another folder once read... hindsight has

20/20 vision & all that...

It seems that, because the inbox file (containing all emails since the year dot) was bigger than AVG liked, it's simply tossed the file away, and won't restore it.

RECUVA can find the old inbox, but reckons it's already been overwritten by another file.

I've got a T'bird backup from December that I'll try and recover later today - but just a warning for anybody who might be using this same set-up...

a) Don't store emails in Thunderbird's Inbox b) Don't let AVG loose on your computer!

This might be enough to make the leap to linux for this particular machine - which is only ever used for email & web browsing....

I know it's the 13th - but really! Adrian

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall
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Or rethink your strategy. My thunderbird mail folders have been stored - even when they were on windows 98 - on a home sever that mirrors all the important data nightly.

If that had happened to me, I would have had last nights copy to go back to.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Ouch.

Oooerr.

I have nearly 10,000 emails in my inbox but generally move what I want to keep of each years worth into an archive folder for that year (which reminds me I had better do that for 2015 now). ;-)

Not good. ;-(

Nice try though.

c) Don't rely on a backup from 3 months ago. ;-(

'Luckily', all the Windows PC's and laptops here are backed up automatically every day where if a hdd was to fail catastrophically, a replacement hard drive and boot from a generic 'recovery' CD would allow us to access the Windows Home Server and recover any machine back from bare iron from the previous day. The irony of all this is the WHS only cost about 40 quid and considering how easy it is to pick up an old PC you could use for that, I don't see why anyone with more that one Windows PC in the house (with stuff on they didn't want to lose) wouldn't want / do the same? (Well, I do, but ya get me).

Even Linux wouldn't protect you (or Thunderbird) from a total HDD failure so I think some form of reliable (and ultimately 'automatic' or the chances it won't get done regularly enough).

That said, I setup a Linux Mint PC for my mate in his PC shop and he uses that all the time for his emails (Thunderbird) and sometimes recovering data from HDD's that Windows doesn't like.

But not Friday so shouldn't count. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

There's a plan!

Yes - sounds like a good idea.. Don't have any sort of 'server/client' setup here (so far). This machine (which is used for business & general browsing) has a nightly backup to a usb-connected hdd - but istr that the email isn't backed, as the machine's on 24/7 and T'bird is usually left running. I think, when I last looked, that T'bird didn't like having its open files archived while it was using them (understandable!)

I suppose, if I knew how, I could have some sort of script(?) that would turn off T'bird, run Mozbackup, then turn T'bird back on every evening - but I'm not sure I'd know where to start with that... or if it's possible even ?

Thanks A

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Very 'ouch'....

That's more or less what I said...

Marks for trying!

I guess the home server thing is on my very long list of things than need a 'round tuit'.... This machine is backed up to a usb hdd every night - but (see above) that backup doesn't include the Thunderbird stuff (yet).

I can accept hardware failures. It's when the problem is _caused_ by some clown of a software engineer (speaking as a code-monkey myself) that it rankles somewhat.

I was playing with Puppy Linux a few weeks back - getting on quite well with things - even got both of my monitors running properly.

There's still some programs on this pc that 'need' windows - but could probably run in a virtual Win environment.

My wife's machine is all email & browser, so Puppy can do all of that.

Close enough!

Need to sit down with a pencil & paper & work out a backup strategy, I think....

Ho hum - there's another thing to add to the list.

Thanks A

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Warning heeded :)

The right choice, but whatever ...

I'd advocate routing incoming mails through GMail and switch on their two factor authentication for security.

You can then pickup on many other devices, Gmail using a browser (fun for messing with filters and labels) and also pickup in Thunderbird using server based IMAP.

You can also use Thunderbird IMAP to copy your backed up emails up to google, useful for searching I find.

It's however cloud based, some people have concerns but YMMV.

Reply to
Adrian Caspersz

I think you have just had one? It's funny, it's not only the PC stuff but my Mrs 'just assumes' (it seems) that things like *everything* about her PC is protected by my efforts (it's also on a UPS btw ), and 'the washing machine seems to be broken' doesn't contain an element of question for my behalf, just that I'll be able to fix it .

So, ages ago I felt the need for some sort of a server, tried to build a Linux one (because it was 'free' and 'less vulnerable to viruses ...' etc) but eventually gave up as I neither have the patience nor experience with Linux to see it though, so after a quick look found (and paid actual money for), the WHS V1 as it was at the time. It's been on (or more accurately 'comes on') every day and not only backs up *everything* on every PC (including Thunderbird, open or otherwise) it's also a Torrent, media, file, print server, stuff I'd probably never have the patience (or skill / interest) to set up on Linux. 'Roundtuits' rarely get done if they are difficult.

I have since also got a copy of the second version of the WHS and have provided the same for a couple of mates with small businesses to give them automated protection (something they wouldn't have otherwise).

Yes, I think it's 'shadow copies' or somesuch that allows that sort of thing to happen (but I know little about it).

Do you think your Mrs would differentiate between the causes though? ;-)

Sure.

Whilst I think Puppy is very clever (and will run on some really low spec kit) it's a bit too 'weird' for me to be considered anything other than a project or toy (and that's not meant to take anything away from the whole Puppy thing).

Again, from my POV that all adds another layer of complication, especially when the users aren't technical or interested / tolerant of 'technical stuff'. I set up XP in Virtualbox on Linux for my BIL so that he could run his accounts package. A Linux update used up all the disk space, crashed VB and to this day I haven't been able to recover his data from the VM. HE now has the PC dual boot (Linux / W7, defaulting to Linux) and can reboot into Windows for those odd things that are Windows only. That still doesn't seem to stop him regularly downloading and trying to run Windows stuff on Linux though (no matter how often I tell him they aren't the same). ;-(

Have you had a look at Ubuntu Mate Adrian?

formatting link

Seems pretty clean a simple but I don't know if it offers the same 'rolling update' as the mainstream Ubuntu does (and one of it's advantages over something like Mint).

The thing is, whilst you can use local solutions (external drives etc) I don't know how many offer an automatic incremental backup with the option of selective or bare iron recovery solutions, not without some user involvement anyway.

We have used several of the ClickFree dongles, connected to external USB drives and that's about as close as I have seen to giving ordinary users something they might actually use *to protect themselves* but alas, like running updates [1] or updating AV databases, few ever seem to be bothered. ;-(

So, the first step might be some form of centralised 'box' (NAS / old PC running NAS software or just Windows / Linux setup with shared space) and then trying to find a bit of software that does everything possible (file level + complete machine recover) as easily and transparently as possible.

Cheers, T i m

[1] One of the other 'down's' for Linux for the ordinary user was the inability to set it to apply all the updates automatically on shutdown. The Linux guys try to give technical reasons (why technical people) might not want that but I'm talking about protecting 'ordinary people' here. So, just with many other things, they never get done, till I go round there ...
Reply to
T i m

In message , T i m writes

Years back I purchased Windows Home Server V.1 and installed it on an HP server. This was on the advice of my son, who had installed it in his business. He then had a catastrophic failure on his backup server, and tried to recover the data from the disks. I was vaguely involved and he got into big problems with the way the data was encoded or maybe striped. He eventually recovered it, but swore never again with WHS. The originals were still OK, so he lost nothing.

I took fright and installed a non-WHS Windows backup on the same hardware to replace the WHS, later migrating to a CentOS Linux backup system using Synctoy to back up data to alternate disks daily via task scheduler in uncompressed format. I have to shut down the live programs to back them up, though..

Then the psu died in my HP server. Grabbed a different machine, put the disks in and away it went.

I run a backup of the backup to the first machine now I've hacked a standard psu to fit the case, but I must admit that it isn't working at the moment since the later CentOS 7 did an update and broke itself. Another roundtuit awaits.

With any of this stuff I now want to make sure that the backup is easily recoverable. I can't actually remember the details of why It was difficult to recover the WHS.

It would be nice to have "shadow copies" of the live program data, though.

Reply to
Bill

I have had a similar problem, though in my case it was a spam folder that was infected and deleted / corrupted.

In my case I simply excluded the Thunderbird directories from AVG's checks.

Reply to
Fredxxx

Works OK for me.

But they are mounted via NFS.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

There's a problem right there, still using XP connected to the 'net.

Nope. AVG will(well should, never say never etc) only do what its told. If files are deleted they are gone (as soon as they are over written) if quarantined they can't be ran but can be restored.

Yup

Why ever not! Take control tell it not to delete files, merely quarantine them. BTW I don't use AVG I just use Defender and Malwarebytes along with common sense, have NEVER had a virus

What has the O/S got to do with you(or rather your wife) running your e-mail app wrong (storing read e-mails in the inbox).

Make the change because XP is no longer supported not because the e-mail app is getting used wrong.

Reply to
soup

it?s worth having a look at Porteus only 300Mb in size and without the weirdness of Puppy (with Xfce desktop)

formatting link

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Reply to
Mark

Hmm, I believed it was just straight NTFS because it's the drive extender that provides the duplication / redundancy (simply ensuring 'protected' data is duplicated across two different drives)?

I guess there is no solution that suits everyone and (all) stuff does go wrong sooner or later? ;-(

Quite. And what about the data on the server backup (the backup *of* the server), was that ok?

Whatever works. ;-)

Ah, so no 'shadow copy' or whatever it's called?

That has always worried me about those little HP Microservers (even if yours wasn't one), or any 'non standard' hardware for that matter, that's why most of my machines are home built using stock components.

Yes, that's one good thing about Linux, that machine portability (where compatible etc). We have done that with the Mint on mates machine in the PC shop when just updating it to something a bit better and it just 'carried on working'.

;-)

;-)

I think it's known that some people have had such issues with (WHS) drives and data loss and there may have been a patch to fix it.

Yes ... something many machines here enjoy every day ... and it was something this simple admin-user could install *easily*. ;-)

I think I saw on the Ubuntu Mate for the Raspberry Pi that they are starting to 'get', that some people aren't interested in 'computers' but do want the solutions and services they bring and so they have included a facility for an ordinary user to enable or disable the GUI desktop at boot time ('graphical disable / enable' etc).

That way, 'ordinary admin-users' can install the OS and configure it easily and then once configured via the GUI and then the GUI can be disabled to give the machine a bit more power (I've tried it on the Pi and it works but I always feel uncomfortable that the GUI won't re-enable and I'll have to re-install to get it back (because that would be guaranteed to work and quicker for me).

As my WHS V1 has now been up a while ( 1848 days, pretty well untouched) I built a WHS v2 ready to replace it and do fire it up now and again just to see if it still works and back up the few machines that are linked to that server ... but whilst the little Atom powered V1 keeps running (and suspending itself after the last user disconnects or torrent has finished or remote user logs off or last file access has finished) I keep it ticking over (silently, behind the TV). ;-)

If they still sold it today I think I'd install it on some basic boxes and get some of my friends and family to run one.

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

The demo video looked cool. ;-)

I just tried to configure a system and build it to download and try but it failed so I'll try again later.

"The build encountered an unexcepted error. Try again later."

Cheers, T i m

Reply to
T i m

10,000 is a lot of emails for an inbox. I'm surprised it can cope.
Reply to
pamela

CrashPlan seems to cope with thunderbird files fine, and that backs up every two hours here. That's to t'internet rather than to a home server

- less faff, more likely to work.

Reply to
Clive George

Have a look at the free version of SyncBack.

Reply to
F

if you are going to put it on a bootable USB stick with Linux ext4 it has built in persistence, if you go for fat32 you have to jump through a few hoops to enable it. it has a good forum if you need any help.

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Reply to
Mark

36K in thunderbird here...

(10K in outlook too)

Reply to
Clive George

Another approach might be to change what AVG does with an infected file- maybe just tell it to warn you?

Reply to
Chris Bartram

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