OT speed limit signs

[Murmansk]

On the A55 in North Wales near LLandudno and Colwyn Bay there are stretches where it has a 50mph speed limit and that's shown by a conventional circular sign with 50 written on it in a red circle with a white background.

What puzzles me is that when the 50 limit ends instead of there being a National Speed Limit Applies sign (white circle with a black sloping bar through it) they have a 70 sign in the same style as the 50 sign.

Is there any specific reason for this? It occurred to me that it MIGHT have something to do with that road being used by foreign lorry drivers coming from Holyhead?

[Roger Hayter]

Elsewhere in North/Mid Wales, eg the A483 from Welshpool to Shrewsbury, long stretches of single carriageway are signed 60mph. I take it that they either want to remind people what the national speed limit is, or just remind people to keep within it. Presumably it doesn't actually breach any rules, but I don't actually know this. It is mildly irritating, but not quite so irritating as long stretches of the same road further West which are limited to 40mph or 50mph for no apparent reason (few or no houses).

[The Natural Philosopher]

single carriageway limit is 50mph for anything over (3.5? 7.5?) tonnes

Its hell to get stuck behind a commercail looking out for his license

[Roger Hayter]

On this particular road, the main problem is commercial vehicles going at 56mph on the short straight bits, 33mph on bends and even slower up the hills.

[alan_m]

I believe, from a friends experience[1], in that part of Wales they are very strict in enforcing penalties for speeding in that they give zero leeway over the limit plus 10%. Maybe in these areas the purpose is to remind drivers so they have no excuse when caught speeding. I don't know, but it may be a requirement to signpost the limit if mobile speed cameras are being used in the area.

[1] When he went on his speed awareness course it was mentioned that they had a lot of people caught on the Welsh side of the border for speeds that they would have got away with 10 miles down the road in England

[Mike Humphrey]

Yes, there's a reason. And it's a bit convoluted, so feel free to give up part way :-)

That part of the A55 is a "Special Road". What's one of them? It's a road that's not a highway - created by the Special Roads Act, unsurprisingly. There's no general right to use it, utilities can't dig it up, etc. Traffic is allowed to use it by an order which specfies what types of traffic are allowed (unlike highways, which everyone can use unless there's an order saying what traffic is *not* allowed). Most Special Roads are Motorways, but some (like the A55) aren't.

Now, when the Act was created, it specified the speed limits for Motorways, but failed to specify any default limit for other Special Roads. The normal limits don't apply, since they only apply to highways. So a specific limit has to be imposed and the correct sign displayed -

70, not NSL (which would mean "no limit" in this case).

If you want all the details, see

Mike

[Nightjar]

It is that very rare beast - a non-motorway special road. Under the special roads legislation, they have no speed limit, unless one is specifically signed. At one time, motorways had 70mph signs at the start of the motorway regulations, because of that. Later legislation amended the special roads legislation, so that, unless otherwise signed, motorways were subject to the national speed limit. Non-motorway special roads were not included in that change, so still need 70mph signs where that limit applies.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

I'd hope not. Lorries in the UK are restricted to 58 mph.

[Andy Burns]

I thought the legal limit on motorways for HGV was 60mph, but they're limited by EU regulations to 90kph=56mph ?

[The Natural Philosopher]

EU regulations ARE a legal limit. Until we leave the EU.

[Brian Gaff]

Well at the bottom of my road which is often so full of parked cars any large vehicle would soon get stuck. The council has a huge picture of a truck with a line through it and the Tonnage in both imperial and metric on the sign. You still get them trying to come up the road cos their sat nave tells them its a faster route to the M25. I rest my case. Brian

[Andy Burns]

Though they don't apply to all HGV ...

[The Natural Philosopher]

However the issue here is the vehicle limiters.

I believe two laws apply.

[Nightjar]

An LGV doing 60mph on a motorway or on a dual carriageway in England and Wales is in breach of the construction and use regulations, which cover the speed limiter, but is not exceeding the speed limit.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its still a legal limit

[Andy Burns]

In most cases ... not all vehicles have a 90kph limiter, depending on fuel and age, some can still have 60mph limiters (e.g. older horseboxes above 3.5t) other specialist vehicles e.g. emergency service vehicles have not limiters.

[Nightjar]

It is a legally required speed limiter setting, which is not the same as a legal speed limit. As I said, an LGV driver doing 60mph on a motorway can't be charged with exceeding the speed limit.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Did I ever suggest that he could?

[Nightjar]

Yes, by claiming that 90kph is a legal limit. That implies that travelling faster than that is an offence, which it is not on UK motorways.

[Dave Liquorice]

They still do in Scotland.