OT. Parking

[David Lang]

Hi All

My daughter got a parking ticket from the local council and wrote to complain that she had bought a ticket, but it had obviously fallen off the dashboard.

They wrote back to her basically saying bugger off.

She went on holiday, so wasn't able to reply.

Thing is, the car was in the wife's name. Next thing we get is a Notice to Owner/Keeper saying that unless the wife pays, the fine will double to £90 and although she wasn't driving at the time, she is still legally liable.

So, presumably if I lend you my shotgun and you kill someone, I'm liable? Not the best example I know. How about if I lent you a chainsaw and you cut your neighbours head off, then did a runner. I would be liable for murder?

What is going on here?

Dave

[Rupert]

Just produce the ticket to the authorities

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[SantaUK]

Best check in alt.uk.law

[SantaUK]

And if you haven't seen them already - the baliff programs that keep appearing every week will tell you that you'd be best paying a £45 fine before it escalates to atleast 10x its value!!

[Colin Wilson]

uk.legal might be a good place for this one :-}

[nightjar]

The offence is usually not displaying a valid ticket. If it falls off the dashboard it is not being displayed.

Correct. It is always possible to trace the keeper of the vehicle. Therefore, for offences where it may not be possible to identify the driver, the keeper is held responsible. The simplest answer is to pay the fine and hand the bill to your daughter when she returns from holiday. You will save her £45 that way.

Colin Bignell

[EricP]

Wasn't this sort of thing kicked into touch ages ago as one of those against your human rights things? Punishing someone for anothers breach?

[Steve Firth]

[snip]

Won't wash, the offence is failing to display a valid ticket. They probably have photographs to prove that a valid ticket was not displayed.

Pay the fine, tell the daughter to pay you, and tell her to be more careful in future.

[al]

The ticket could be from another car and won't be accepted. They'll claim you didn't display one so you'll never win (imagine a very large, very thick brick wall ... then have a chat with it!).

a

[Colin Wilson]

Although in some circumstances people have got around it - if the ticket was not sticky enough to stay in place, or the ticket was printed on a photosensitive paper that turns black in sunlight it could be argued that the ticket was not of merchantable quality.

[TheScullster]

I had a colleague some years ago, who regularly parked in a pay and display car park without buying a ticket. If he got a ticket, he would approach someone leaving and beg a valid ticket for the period. He would then write to the authority enclosing the ticket, claiming that it had fallen from the screen, and get off the fine! Not sure how many times or car parks, but it suggests that, if the ticket is available, it may be worth a try!

Phil

[Rob Summers]

And therein lies the reaason why even genuine cases get short shrift from councils these days.

Rob

[:::Jerry::::]

No it wasn't, ask yourself who get the speeding ticket from a camera, the registered KEEPER - Doh....

[:::Jerry::::]

She didn't DISPLAY the ticket, did she, just pay up.

[Simon]

Long gone are the days when you had to do something wrong to get punished.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Look carefull at waht the summons says.

I had a similart thig in london. The first summons said 'failure to pay'

I pointed out that I had paid. The second said 'failure to display'

I pointed out that I had displayed.

The third one said 'failure to display correctly'

I got off on appeal (we were up to 180 quid by this time, but I was furious) because 'the subsequent offence was not that as on the original parking ticket'

I.e. they are not allowed to change the offence if the first one doesn't work.

SO if you have a ticket that says 'failure to pay' rather than 'failure to display' you are home and dry.

They do. The wardens have their quotas to fill. I hope you have photocopied the ticket.

This is in fact true, a shameless fact that my unscruplous relative who shall remain nbameless used to his advatnage when he returned his long term contract hire car complete with about 50 parking tickets and congestion charge fines unpaid. They are still arguing that one.

The whole thing is designed so they can legally bully anyone into giving them money.

yes..i think in some weays you are.. actually. Aiding and abetting...accessory before the fact..?

Stealth taxes and jobs for the boys.

[:::Jerry::::]

Long gone are the days when you needed at least half a clue to post to Usenet....

[Mary Fisher]

Sensible advice.

Mary

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[Mary Fisher]

Does he pay for his petrol? Did he pay for the car? Does he pay for his clothes, his food ... if he uses a service knowing that there's a charge he should pay.

Mary

[Bob Eager]

Round here, you have to put the numeric part of the reg no onto the ticket by pushing buttons on the machine.

Mind, that worked a lot better a few years ago..there are lots of '53' cars around!