I can't remember anyone having the cane. I sometimes had two rulers across my knuckles because my books were so messy after we went onto ink pens. It didn't work, my writing is still execrable. The typewriter was my saviour :-) But I was intelligent, the first girl to win a scholarship, ever, from the school. I was a great frustration for my teachers.
It was at the same time as Terry Waite was a hostage. Afterwards he said the worst thing was that he hadn't been able to attend his twin daughters' graduations. I remember thinking that he'd been denied that celebration by the Hezbollah, we'd been denied it by our own son. It still brings a lump to the throat.
But we'd had the splendid first graduation ceremony at York Minster, where he was awarded a double first and we saw the great west doors open for the first time in my life. Probably the last too ...
Sorry, I'm rambling.
Oh, I thought Scouting was making a come-back, didn't know it was subject to the same dumbing down as schools :-(
It was an achievement. He'd put a huge amount of work into it, so had we as well as supporting him in all sorts of ways, sourcing materials, loaning him my Moggy van ...
But (and please take this the right way) are we just rewarding 'effort' here, like we do when someone has a job and gets paid (and nothing wrong with either of course)?
If during this process something new is discovered or explained (a cure for something or anti-gravity boots invented etc) then that is different (IMO). I'm not sure simply getting yourself up_to_speed with known information is in itself 'special' [1](but then I said I didn't understand it all). :-(
What I mean is I don't know that I couldn't get a degree in something, the reason I haven't is I never felt the need to do so? So the only difference between me with and without a degree is if I can be bothered or not?
Oh sure, as do I with our daughter, but that was more because I wanted to help her get the practical skills than any 'qualification'. This is proven by the fact that *every* bit of practical homework she's ever given in was done 100% by her (not the case with many of her fellow school pupils).
I had a lot of fun in my Moggy vans when I were a lad
Back trouble is endemic in the computer industry. Despite the best chairs in the world we don't get enough exercise.
AFAICT it's a myth about the eyes. More years than I car to admit in front of a screen seems to have made me long sighted. Just like my dad, who was a pilot, looking at horizons all the time.
Are you saying that he never looked at the cockpit displays, the co-pilot (my speel chucker wants to change that word to copulate) or even worse, the stewardess that brought him his coffee and food? ;-)
A pilot never looks at the horizon for any length of time, he has instruments to keep an eye on. Particularly at night.
As for going short sighted, or long sighted, it depends on your genes. I went short sighted quite early in my life (12 years old) to such an extent that I ended up at the age of 35 where my left eye could only focus up at about 2 inches from the front of it. I ended up with hard contact lenses to get me off bottle bottom lenses for that eye. These days, after having a cataract removed from it, I can manage to read a news paper at a distance of about 2 feet, with 20 20 vision at distance. Now, my right eye is just short sighted, but that too has a cataract on it, but I can still read quite well with it.
There's work in tree surveys for environmental consultancies and the like (along the lines of is this tree valuable, to does it need any work doing to stop it dropping branches on people). Daft as it may sound, a lot of places contract out tree condition work to move the liability away from themselves. It may be a worthwhile line of work to examine as most arborists seem to end up knackered from tree climbing after a while.
Yep and even the myopic suffer from it, says him with his first set of varifocals. It's due to the lens getting harder as you age and can't be squished enough to focus close.
I disagree. Most of the feckless types I know of have always been that way, and the hardworking types have always been fairly hardworking. Certainly in my experience doing a job that doesn't suit is a bloody miserable task, whereas doing a job you enjoy is fantastic. It's certainly something worth spending a few years finding out. FWIW I know of one person who's settled a career directly related to the degree they chose at 18 (well, more like 16 or 17 when you go through UCAS and your choice of A-levels narrows your choice of course). Nothing wrong with having a job but IMO a lot of people have no real clue what they want to do at that age.
I have been quite fortunate so far, a bit of luck being in the right place at the right time (telecomms > computers > training) meaning I enjoyed most of my working time. However even at 17, I never put myself down for any overtime, preferring life over money.
And that's her goal Doki, hoping she can find that perfect (or as near as is reasonable) job before giving up and dropping into the machine. :-(
And that's another thing that I believe is influencing her atm, knowing many degree holders who are trying getting nowhere in their qualified field so willing to settle for anything just to get some employment. She's already come across the qualification 'trap' re writing. She approached a local paper re journalism and they said they couldn't employ her without at least two A levels [1]. She couldn't understand why (say) A levels in geography and art would help her write a better article? So she's writing for them anyway (freelance and free, just to build up her portfolio) and so far they have printed every word she has written, exactly as she wrote it?
Indeed, as I didn't and I have no idea what might have happened if Mum hadn't filled in an application form for me to join the GPO (not that I couldn't do it myself but I just hadn't got rountuit!).
Another point daughter made was that it was costing us ~£200 / month to get her to college on the 3D Design course (train fares, food, materials etc) plus all the tools I was buying and the time I was dedicating to her etc. She rationalized that if she stopped the 3D course (where she was wasting time she could be using to learn something she did like / and might make a career out of), we would in fact be £200 / month better off and she could be fully employed looking for something else?
We had to give her credit for standing up for her ideals (as Mary mentioned).
All the best ..
T i m
[1] You would think A* GCSEs in English Language and English Literature might have given them a clue re her abilities (for what any qualification is worth etc).
Hi again Doki, thanks for this and your previous feedback.
Well from what AHJ was saying earlier getting into that niche consultancy position might not be that easy these days. However, I do know they exist. Another mate I know runs his own drainage Co and often comes across roots and the like whilst plying his trade. They often have to call in a consultant Arborist and whist doing so recently, asked the guy what it's like having to climb trees etc. He replied that he hadn't been up a tree for about 10 years and he now leaves that to the younger folk!
Understandably.
;-)
Ok, well I suppose, if she continues with the enthusiasm she's currently showing for the role and swats all the facts and figures (especially the HSE stuff) then she may stand out against those more focused on the actual mechanical cutting stuff?
I agree. What you think you like doing at 17 may or may not be what you should be doing and even if it is, that can change after 20 years simply because you don't often have enough exposure to know what the other choices are.
From personal experience (long and possibly boring life story :-o )
I did quite well at school (though polarised, loved subject X, hated subject Y on a 50-50 basis). Ended up by default doing a physics degree because I couldn't think of anything better to do. Seemed obvious at the time. This turned out to be poor choice #1. Spent more time fiddling with the mainframe and minis and wasn't sharp enough at doing the moderately serious maths required for physics. Got a crap result (third) and fell out in 1990 right into a recession. Possibly should have done comp sci or electronics.
After Uni, 6 months unemployed, answering every job ad that was vaguely connected with computers + loads of speculative applications. Considered train driving briefly, decided not to go to an open day somewhere in Sussex where there was a driver recruitment exercise. That may have been bad decision #2 as I later lodged with a train driver and he was one of the richest and generally contented in my circle of friends. At least until he ended up working for Connex instead of BR, but that's another story.
Ended up being a civil servant in a south London JobCenter. Disaster. I swore I'd never do such a thing - but needs must...
Anyway, I put my mind to doing a decent job, whatever it was. Conscientiousness and good luck resulted in a transfer working 50% with IT support and then another transfer and (temporary) promotion working wholly with IT support in the Regional Office. And despite everything, my colleagues were some of the best I have known.
Mid 90's Market Testing (you bitch Maggie) threatened our department, so moved to a university. Worked through 3 departments learning more and stayed 5 years overall until a reorganisation threatened the general sanity of the place.
Now in 2000, found a job at another university college with a strong reputation in computing and worked as a senior sysadmin there for 6 years until an unnecessarily brutal and piss-poorly managed reorganisation reduced morale to WWI-night-in-the-trenches levels and it was time to leave. Learnt loads from many excellent colleagues. Effectively this was my defining point. Decent post at a prestigious institution. I had achieved exactly what I set out to do.
Guess I'm not very lucky with the re-orgs... But I dare say I'm not the only one. Some people cope better with these things. I tend to get the hump once I've been cr*pped on.
You know what: I hate computers now. Well, not fair, I love linux and I love running my systems at home, kids permitting. But do I want to continue doing what I'm doing? Not sure. I'm 40 and it might be a time for a 180 degree about turn to do something totally different. I have a job for which I should be grateful with a very decent bunch of people. However, for the first time ever I am now questioning my own competence to be working in the specific area I am. This makes work, which is tight on deadlines anyway, a little more stressful than I care to admit being comfortable with.
So we shall see. I quite fancy landscape gardening, for no particularly good reason. I also have no idea if I have the aptitude. But that's how much of an about-turn I'm considering... I'm fortunate to be financially secure at the moment so it's as good a time as any to be thinking about doing something different.
So there you go... nigh on 20 years of hard work (well, OK, half of it was Uni work, so not that hard!) and I still don't know what I should be doing. The OP's daughter has no chance ;-> But I think that she's doing the right thing by being open minded at an early stage.
Oh, and a mate of mine worked as an agency dustman for about a year after his engineering degree, on purpose. He couldn't decide either. He is now working in engineering...
TBH it sounds like your girl is bright enough for it - I suspect the major issue with people going from being tree surgeons to consulants is not a lack of technical ability in assessing trees, but a lack of ability in report writing - there are plenty of people who get through a degree and still write gibberish a lot of the time - no good at all having someone who knows it all but can't communicate it in a suitable manner. If she can write concisely and effectively she'll stand a much better chance IMO.
Interesting, thanks. ;-) (now snipped for brevity)
Similar with our daughter. She was quite good in science (especially biology) but less good in chemistry because of the maths content. She has this maths blindness .. the other day asked me what a third of
150 was. When I questioned her she thought about it for a second and said 'oh'. If in a job that involves maths (like most to some degree) I'm sure the numbers, or order of numbers will soon become familiar though, like how many X sized bags of grass seed to you need for Y area .. the first time you might order too many or too few, the next time you will have more of a feel for what's required, even if the maths isn't any better?
Ouch. :-(
I'm not sure it really makes that much difference what you take Tim. I know more people working WAY outside their actual chosen field than in.
She's been looking for temp work, from garden centre's to the sheds to furniture shops. She's had one offer but that was for Sunday work and she wasn't willing to give up her Taekwondo for anything.
Hindsight eh Tim. ;-)
A good mate of mine did a similar thing. Worked in a supplies Co as a product manager but was interested (rather than good at to start with) IT Support. Because he was more interested in helping the other staff members than the IT department, he was doing more of that than the Co liked, so he got a telling off. So he left and worked with me in IT training (and he became very good and well liked). He is now the Senior Engineer for a big IT Co and they paid to re-locate him up Norf etc.
Yup, and that can make an average role into a good one. Daughter really got on with these three Arborists. The boss was quite outgoing, the other two were more quiet / reserved. Apparently all three were coming out with and doing stuff that made her laugh (as in really laugh, I have the pictures to prove it). No competition, bitchyness, nasty sarky digs (loads of P-take digs of course), all looking out for each other .. a nice comfortable place to be.
Can that sort of thing actually happen by accident do you think Tim?
I don't think I've ever been that organised / focused Tim.
Don't we all.
Yup, what do they say, we are only here once, no rehearsals etc?
Weird eh. I bet the powers the be haven't questioned your abilities Tim?
Ah, now that's another matter.
With all due respect to all the Landscape gardeners out there I think all it needs to start with is some interest and common sense. With that as a starter you could learn all the rest (reading / experience etc).
And I agree it is a big one! ;-)
Yup ..
And even I (her Dad) have to take my hat off to her for being strong enough to 1) stand up to us (she loves us and doesn't want to make us unhappy) and 2) have the foresight to know (at the moment at least) what she doesn't want to do (9-5 / commuting).
Cool. And why not. Daughter has no issues with *what* she does at the moment (well, except for cold calling / sales). ;-)
Our disappointment about not being able to attend his Master's graduation was because we felt joy at his achievement, knowing about how hard he'd worked.
He did develop some processes as it happens.
Same here. I never knew what I wanted to do when I grew up. Now I know what I'd like to do but it's too late :-) Still, I've had a varied and rich life, wouldn't change it.
When someone's on a course both things matter - or should. That was son's argument, that everyone 'qualified' whether they'd worked or not, whether they'd achieved anything by hard work.
Quite.
So did I when I were a full grown woman. He had a lot too, until he rolled it after going to Harrogate to buy oysters (as you do) with a group of lads rolling illegally about in the back. Only the windscreen survived (and the lads) but he was determined to restore it.
However, love happened :-)
They say that as you get older you need less sleep but They tell lies. Rarely go to bed after 10 pm and rarely up before 8.30 am.
Very interesting story and, I suspect, not unusual.
I'm not giving advice but want to say that it's amazing how little money you can live on contentedly - I know from our experience.
Contentment is priceless. Like your train driver's.
You might think that you have your own targets - to have £N over and above necessities - 'disposable income'. But you don't. And you probably don't need some of the things you think are necessities.
If you're not happy in what you're doing perhaps you might ask if it's worth doing.
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