OT: More National Grid woes

EasyJet plans to fly electric passenger jets by 2027
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/easyjet-plans-to-fly-electric-passenger-jets-by-2027
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On 08/11/2018 18:13, Andy Bennet wrote:

Easy jet virtues signals 'its intention' to pretend to fly electric planes by 2027.
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On 08/11/2018 18:13, Andy Bennet wrote:

Strapping pigs to the wings as backup for when the batteries go flat?
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On 08/11/2018 18:29, Richard wrote:

Exactly.
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On Thu, 8 Nov 2018 18:39:40 +0000, The Natural Philosopher

What's the difference between the battery going flat and running out of jet fuel?
The rules for electric planes will be similar to those for today's jets - enough fuel to get there + holding time + diversion time+ various fudge factors (including pilots instinct!).
I'm as doubtful about the date as everyone else.
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On Thu, 08 Nov 2018 20:48:26 +0000, Graham Harrison

So where will the passenger sit?
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Chris

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wrote:

On the batterys, stupid.
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Rod Speed <rod.speed.

That’s a good way to get piles on the bum.
GH
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And have your arse on fire when they fail.
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On 08/11/2018 20:48, Graham Harrison wrote:

The former happens after one hour, the latter after ten...

Ah. so that will mean they will be restricted to landing immediately after takeoff then, at the same airport.,,.

Ive flown more electric aeroplanes than anyone in this group I dare say. I've done man many calculations on them. In the end all that is stoipping them is energy density and a bit of safety. Batteries ten times better would do the job.
Batteries, except lithium air, cannot be made ten times better. Not even in theory.
Lithium air is a big challenge on safety and on other grounds., They may never happen.
And they make a plane land heavier than it takes off :-)
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On Thu, 08 Nov 2018 20:48:26 +0000, Graham Harrison wrote:

It's by asking such wrong questions we're in the mess we're in generally.
The correct question is "what are the chances of a battery failing catastrophically compared to the chances of a conventionally fuelled plane failing catastrophically ?"
Loads of Samsung owners got burned arse cheeks from a non-flat battery.
Anyway, there's no way you'd get the power/weight ratio required for serious passenger flight without a step change in technology. Currently (but not exclusively) room temperature superconductors which would increase the efficiency of motors.
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Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@

Transport in the future may need a step change in attitude if people decide they want to travel, If electric land transport reaches the goal that has been set out out for it that is going to leave a lot of oil that will now be available for things where battery stored energy still isn’t practical,it may be expensive either by becoming a rarer commodity or deliberate political intent but there will always be some wealthy enough to continue much as they do now. The ordinary person may find that flying off to a foreign city just for a weekends birthday pissup is no longer the cheap option that has been available since EasyJet and Ryanair proved that many were happy with the equivalent of a flying bus rather than a Railway dining car. If such people still want to travel cheaply to such destinations then maybe they could take a hit on the speed of the journey and the airship concept gets revisited where weight of batteries may not be such an issue and the energy they need to provide will mainly be for propulsion rather than keeping the craft in the air as well.
GH
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I think in a few centuries, 1900-c.2000 will appear as oddities in that personal transport was so widespread.
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On 09/11/2018 10:20, Jethro_uk wrote:

I think in a few centuries, 1900BC - 1900AD will appear as oddities in that personal (horse) transport was so widespread.
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On Friday, 9 November 2018 11:42:01 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The current world record is over 15,000 mpg. I reckon we could likely reach 1,000mpg in a road going vehicle if it tops out at 25mph.
NT
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I bet it doesn’t when we get our act into gear with nukes once fossil fuels become significantly more expensive.
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On 09/11/2018 18:17, Jane wrote:

It's still an issue.
But yes, a nuclear electric society is one possible future.
http://www.templar.co.uk/downloads/Beyond_Fossil_Fuels.pdf
All - or mostly - nuclear is economically viable as France shows.
That leaves you with two problems:
1: Off grid transport. 2: Replacing coal and gas as chemical reducing agents.
Synthetic fuel for both is possible, but way too expensive at the moment.
However if off peak electricity were turned into hydrocarbon fuel, you might say that fuel cost was essentially zero as the opportunity cost of keeping a nuke going flat out rather than throttled back is almost zero.
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Yes.

There is only much of that with aircraft and it will always be possible to make petrol, gas and diesel using nukes.

No need to when nukes mean that those are still available.

Yes, but viable once the price of those hike. But it will be a long time before that happens with shale oil and CSG etc.

And then it can be used in cars and planes.
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On 10/11/2018 07:46, Jane wrote:

They will always 'still be available' but at some point too expensive to compete with synfuels.

Read the linked paper
The problem with hydrocarbon fuels is not really CO2, but things like injecting H2O high in the atmosphere, and or NOx at ground level.
This suggests that people would prefer BEVS for city use where car density is high.
And electric aircraft if possible. Electric transatlantic flight is absolutely on the limits of *theoretical* lithium air technology.
Like fusion its all possible, if only someone knew how to solve the technical problems...
I'd give it a 50/50 in the next 30 years.
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What I said.

Did that.

No evidence that that is a real problem.

Yes, but I was commenting on your off grid. Those arent.

The next 30 years isn't a problem with hydrocarbon fuels.
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