OT: meter needs replacing.......

Straw man. That was never in dispute.

Tim

You may have missed the announcement but normal ICE vehicles are being phased out.

Tim

There was an announcement, yes, but I'll believe it when I see it. The infrastructure required won't - indeed can't - be available in time, meaning there'll be blowback from the public once they realise the reality of it. The rosy pictures being painted at present are just fiction.

My 7 year old Auris hybrid is good for another number of years yet, after which we might get a plug-in hybrid for local journeys. I can put some solar in which will help a bit. So my use case doesn't include an EV just yet, and judging by the alleged drop in EV sales, others are making a similar calculation.

Unfortunately, that announcement doesn't magically make EVs affordable to those on low incomes or without large savings.

Another interpretation is that it will mean a significant reduction in availability of personal transport, rather than 1:1 replacement of ICE with EV...

There's no possible doubt of that. The government push for EVs does not seem to coincide with a similar push to greatly increase power generation or improve the grid. Ergo, there is no intention that the number of EVs on the road will ever come close to the number of ICE cars today.

It's all transitional anyway, the ultimate intention is to eliminate private motor transport.

Your statement that “Customers like you subsidise the rest of us” cheerily failed to take into account that you are also paying subsidies. It might not be in dispute, it’s just that you missed it out, in your rush to sex-up smart meters.

Wait for the EU elections over the weekend, seems to be a lot of backlash to overzealous green policies, I can see the deadline moving back by 5 years ... then another 5 years.

I'm nowhere ready to have a full EV yet, but a couple of months ago I did look into a hybrid, until I saw it would cost me an extra £1000 a year in insurance, much more that it would save in petrol.

If you don't have these, then these potential savings mean nothing.

No, it’s just irrelevant.

Tim

Auction prices on a ~2017-18 Nissan Leaf or Renault Zoe are in £5k territory:

As more EVs come off 3-4 year leases, as many are now doing, you are likely to get a get a better and better EV for similar used car money.

Theo

Given the more-or-less lack of servicing that EVs are supposed to need, why aren't they being leased oer longer periods?

OK, so everybody knows that car businesses sell finance deals rather than cars ...

#Audiproblems

For the Toyotas with hybrid and non-hybrid options, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference in insurance between the two. It does seem to be more of a problem with 'performance' cars, which some hybrids and EVs (eg Teslas) are - even if you never want to drive them fast, they appeal to people who drive recklessly which pushes up the claims and hence the insurance prices.

Theo (who has never paid more than £500 a year in insurance)

True I did start off looking at a Q5 to replace an A5, but I moved on to looking at Volvos, BMWs, VWs similar jump.

There's something in that ... I've never owned a "performance car" as such. So a hybrid with a similar spec petrol engine to current car plus electric motor about 50% of the petrol power seems reasonable ... after all it will lose the motor after it's done 30-35 miles and I don't want to be left with a 1.5 litre from there for the rest of the journey.

But the insurers tend to see 250+125=375bhp, when I think you get slightly under 2+1=3, plus it's heavier to cart around the hybrid battery and planetary gears, the 0-60 times aren't much different, so still not a "performance car" ...

Sometimes

Isn't it all to do with corporate accounting? They lease so they don't have to deal with buying an asset and selling it on, the standard corporate depreciation period is 3 years, and the Sales Director wouldn't be seen dead in a 4 year old company car because it might make the company look like cheapskates when he competes for clients.

With cars having 5+ year warranties these days, I don't think the longevity of the car is the driver for leasing - it's not like they fall apart after 3 years. But writing off after 3 years is what company accounting expects, and they can write it down as a business expense.

When the Sales Director hands back his lease car, he gets a shiny new one. Meanwhile the old one goes off to auction and someone else can pick up a well kept example for a good price.

Theo

The trouble is that 'similar spec' can have different interpretations. My hybrid has a 2.5 litre petrol engine, and that pushed up the premium. But it's a modified Atkinson cycle engine, with relatively little torque. Then they add the electric motors and say it's a powerful vehicle.

Interesting because it's a direct replacement for a 2 litre diesl (same car model). Performa about the same except that the 30 to 60 time is halved. And the fuel consumption is better - from 40 mpg to about 53 mpg (petrol is cheaper too!)