OT: materials that might be found of a 1920s strand line.

Aug 06, 2023 Last reply: 2 years ago 9 Replies

On a tidal river, so little wave perterbation and no higher abnormally high tide line since. An untouched piece of sloping bankside covered by a thick layer of decayed oak tree leaf litter at least 50 years deposit as above the nurdle depositions. What could have been floating on a river 100 years ago to make a recognisable extreme tide strand line.? Cork and charcoal and wood natural or human wrked, is about all I can think off, coal, coke, bakelite , celuloid, rubber of sort of human origin are too dense to float in water. Would bits of oak twig survive in some sort of recognisable state under



100 years of decayed leaves? Loads of stuff floatble for strand lines in the last 50 yers, nurdles, crisp packets, polyptop rope etc

Oil? Used for lubrication if not propulsion and likely they weren't too careful about it getting into the water.

Was it the kind of river to have shipping?

Also runoff from industrial processes like gas works, tanneries, etc that would end up in the river.

In suitable anoxic conditions, quite possibly. Black organic deposits are often formed anoxically (see coal, peat bogs, etc).

They'll be coal in a few hundred million years...

Theo

International shipping used the river at the time. Going by the recently demolished gasworks site, I've no idea what the ground contamination was, but after rain , some of the ground had a vibrant sort of electric purple colour, impressive but disturbing. I suppose bits of tarry stuff might show up from the then sloppy bunkering of vessels. Also someone suggested that around then they used wads of coconut hairy-fibre brown covering waste material, much as bubble wrap is used today, to protect fragile items in transit.

So, are you asking this for any specific reason? Layering of sediments and the like has always occurred, indeed there are some satellites that have ways of sensing fast changes in this sort of data, as it will point to some change maybe over 100 years or so, not the sort that takes thousands of years. Brian

Although tide gauges have been around for at least 100 years, if the records survive , the datums/calibration procedures tend not to survive as gauging sites tend to move around different sites in a port. It would be nice to have another way , other than newspaper accounts, of the levels of extreme tides in earlier decades. So by nurdle counts, "best before" dates on crisp packets,etc its been possible to correlate recent high tides with the known records In local chart datum terms at 4.95m a strand line for 4.90m tide 23 April 2023 (would have been obliterated last week due to a 5.14m tide 02 Aug 2023) and going up slope

5.16m a strand line for 5.22m tide of 21 Aug 2020 5.55m a strand line for 5.60m tide of 14 Aug 2012 5.76m a strand line for 17/18 Dec 1989 that has no official recording, just living memory and newspapers etc would suggest about 4.75m. Then Nov 26 1924 there was , from the meteorology and newspaper records a tide of about 6.0m , but in the records as 5.6m as that was the height before the pen trace of the clockwork tide gauge recorder hit the traverse end stop , but that fact not recorded in the record, just the uppermost normally functioning trace. A lot of reliance is placed on coastal flood resilience civil engineering etc on the statistical analysis giving return periods of extreme floods. If the most extreme ones are unknown/questionable its GIGO, (economically useful) underplaying extreme tide levels

Roman fish farming tanks in the mediterranian were set very accurately relative to sea level because they used waves washing over ramps to provide circulation of water and this only worked properly when the ramps were at just the right level relative to the sea. Original work on this was done by Nick Fleming. There is a lot of literature on this subject now. John

[ correction 5.76m a strand line for 17/18 Dec 1989 that has no official recording, just living memory and newspapers etc would suggest about 5.75m. ]

This may be what NOC prof Ivan Haigh was telling me about proxy records for tidal records in the Med, a couple of months ago ,but did not go into detail.

I liked the example shown on a TV prog last month relating to IIRC about

1m rise in tide levels in Venice since the renaissance. One of those classical top-notch painters used a camera obscura to draught out images of buildings before painting. So any architectural details were spot on, in scale, including the slime line around the base of buildings which bears witness precisely to normal high tides. The same slime line on the same existing buildings in venice , but now much higher up, by a measurable amount. Then "jacking up" Venice by hydraulically injecting water slowly under Venice over years. Apparently this was successively done somewhere in USA 80 years ago or so, because oil extraction had lowered the town so much, it was flooding.

If its a river or and area with moving sand banks then water levels over a decade may be very variable due solely to silting or dredging. The height of a tide may also be influenced by the amount of water flowing down a river when te tide is coming in.

I think you are mistaken, Venice is not being submerged by rising sea levels, it ins sinking into the swamp it was built on

That is the thing to do. give the building proper underpinning so they dont sink sea levels have been rising at ~ 3mm a year for the last 5000 year+ and are not changing rates.

There's another minor point - there's F all tide in the Med.

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Andy

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