OT; I feel slightly guilty.....

[bert]

In message , Tim Streater writes

Verbal agreements are binding in Scotland I believe.

[Nightjar]

It would be 10% off the quoted price, so that would only need to be adjusted to suit. Although I was thinking more of a cash sum off, equal to the haggle mark-up on the job just completed.

Colin Bignell

[John Rumm]

Not if you keep customer records, and record which customers have the voucher. You can then adjust the quoted price up in compensation in advance. If it then turns out they don't haggle as expected, and also don't produce the voucher, you have the option of extra brownie points by reminding them that they have a voucher and making the deduction when it comes time to pay...

or not depending on how free and easy they were with the tea and biccies ;-)

[John Rumm]

An estimate is just that - if you agree to proceed on an estimated price, then you have to accept the final price may be higher or lower. If however you asked for a quotation, then its indeed the suppliers problem. (although expect the supplier the include extra contingency in the quotation, and if the job turns out to be simpler than expected, you ought not expect any reduction).

Its the difference between a "cost plus" and a "fixed price" contract. Its important to understand which you have entered into.

[Capitol]

If I'm selling, it stays on the market until a contract and a non refundable deposit exist. The would be buyer can take the appropriate action.

[Huge]

There are clauses allowing either party to withdraw if, for example, the survey throws up something bad.

It seems virtually every country in the world has a better system than England.

[Tim Streater]

Yes. The provisions are whatever you choose to put in the contract, although I expect that the boilerplate one suffices for most cases. But you pay a deposit at the start of the process (mine was $1000) which is lost if you use your clause as a get-out. That's a clause that the other party will insist on. Also after some period (a month I think), you become liable to pay a chink of dosh ($20k as I recall). Again, that's a typical contract provision from the seller's side. If you, as buyer, don't like that, you argue it at the start of the process. Again, you forfeit that if you pull out.

The thing I did notice was that over there, you pay about 6% for the real-estate agent service (vs a % or two here). The difference is that the *work* for you, instead of pissing about.

[Tony Bryer]

Much the same here in Victoria - as I've been reminded before other Australian states have their own systems.

At the outset the vendor/agent gives genuinely interested parties a 's32' which contains the contract, title deeds, planning and building consents, search, body corporate info if a flat - much what would have been the 'Sellers Pack' that was being floated when I left the UK save no vendor-provided survey.

The contract starts by saying that it contains nothing other than the standard terms, save any listed in the special conditions section - no risk of some odd terms buried in the body of the contract. Most people AIUI sign contracts without prior legal advice; on non auction sales the purchaser has a three day cooling off period during which they can pass the contract over to their solicitor for review.

Around 50% of houses are sold by auction - much the same as in the UK you have to line up your finance, survey etc beforehand as if you're the winning bidder you're committed.

Otherwise you decide you like a property, review the s32, make an offer, generally subject to finance and building & pest inspections and sign a contract. If the vendor accepts he countersigns and you have a contract. You've then got 14 days (usually) to sort your finance and survey - home inspectors are set up for a tight timescale, often next day with a templated report being emailed to you same day.

I bought an investment house a couple of years back: looked at it and was given the s32, arranged survey, went back with the agent a few days later when the survey was done, surveyor said verbally that there was nothing of concern, and vendor and I signed contract on the kitchen table, deal done. So much better than the E&W (nearly said UK!) system.

[djc]

There is no contract until its signed. Which given that it is "the single most important purchase most make" is as it should be. Would you really want to commit yourself before getting a survey and checking all the paperwork.

[I had 5 good offers on flat in September and thought it sold, buyer pulled out in December, less than a week later another 5 even better offers. But now second sale has fallen through. Meanwhile the offer I made on a property in August had to be withdrawn once the surveyor and a structural engineer had delived a verdict. ]

[djc]

Not really that different it seems:

[Tim Streater]

So you've answered your own question with a resounding "Yes".

See my other posts about how it works in the US of A [1], where you sign at the beginning and these issues don't arise.

[1] One of the few instances where I have something good to say about the place.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not disputing that. So where does 'my word is my bond' cop out? 5 quid?

500 quid? 5000 quid? 50,000 quid?

[Tim Streater]

It shouldn't cop out at any level. The difference is that, AIUI, a spoken contract is enforceable at law in all cases *except* those concerning property.

[The Natural Philosopher]

That entirely depends on the person.

I've seen it as low as a fiver, and some I know have refused £5m to welsh.

[The Natural Philosopher]

theoretically yes, but try actually enforcing a contract whose very existence is denied and for which no written evidence exists.

[dennis]

If its an estimate you may have to pay. If its a quote its different.

[Jethro_uk]

And England - except for property transactions.

[Onetap]

More than any respectable man would admit to.

I disagree, they may revere Jesus and the Old Testament prophets but, SFAIK don't make any study of the Old Testament. They don't put the same value on their word, especially where kufrs are involved, i.e., the British lot. Retention payments on Middle East contracts were never paid. Maybe you can suggest an alternative explanation for the different attitudes reported above.

[Onetap]

Yes. But if TMH were to insist on exchanging written contracts before starting work, I think his income might decrease.

He has to rely on verbal agreements and both parties depend on the other keeping to their word.

[bert]

Yes I was a little bit casual with my choice of word.